Lets post our opinions on some gadjet oils-OTC

[Bio-T]

deepsquat,
Am I missing something, but Tufoil's claim to fame is PTFE (Teflon). I have never seen a mention of Moly associated with Tufoil. They may have changed the formula in the last few years to include it but they don't talk about it.

 

[Bror Jace]

I also thought that Tufoil was another PTFE-based product.

Oh well, I welcome someone going through the time and expense of producing a lab test showing the effects of a PTFE additive whether it me Tufoil, Slick 50 or some other. Wear metals don't lie.

The best subject would be a car with a well-documented oil analysis base line. Then the change to a PTFE product can be compared to a known history.

--- Bror Jace

 

[MolaKule]

Deepsquat,

Why not add some oil only containg PTFE after running a baseline with your favorite oil and see if it reduces wear metals.

PTFE: The only paper I have seen on PTFE's is by F. G. Rieck of Flouramics, "Variability of PTFE Colloidals in Nonaqueous Systems and Lubricating oils," LE of May 1987. The interesting thing about the paper is he never shows any engine results or wear tests using his colloidal mixture. In his 1980 patent, he states how the mixture is created, but again never shows any frictional or wear data or results of engine tests, although there are some references.

The problem with PTFE, assuming you can get it to bond to metal in a colloidal mixture, is that PTFE shears easily from the metal surfaces and goes back into suspension, not into solution, creating a gel. Back to the paper in LE, he shows a Scanning Electron Microsope (SEM) photograph at 50X magnification and he says in figure 15, "they [particles of PTFE] are only loosely bonded to the [wear scar] surfaces."

Moly: I have copies of at least 5 patents by Exxon and Mobil and Lubrizol covering various Moly additives and I can tell you the metal dithiocarbamates in oils are the best FM/AW additives around for boundary lubrication.

[ September 14, 2002, 01:38 AM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[briarhopper]

I have been reading this website quite a while now. I thought I would put in my 2 cents. I use to work at a bakery in the garage part and we had about 35 delivery trucks>292 Chevy P30 Gas Engines. We used a product called Wynns Fifty Plus along with Shell Rotella 15W40 with excellent results. But our trucks ran hard. They were geared to low>4:56 rearend. You had to hold them to the floor to get 60 mph.
If I remember right Wynns doesn't have any PTFE. Wynns has zinc.

 

[MolaKule]

Bob Sez: "This is one thing that briggs and straton had found when they did their little test on ptfe is how the machine running the ptfe had actually pitted the yellow metals where the other that ran with standard oil showed no such evidence."

The following information is for educational and infromation purposes only:
The patent U.S. 4,224,173 May reveal why. They used a surfactant, Monoflour 32, which is itself a fluorochemical (flourine-based), very reactive, and very corrosive in concentration. By iteslf, it should not have been reactive since it was a non-ionic type. A surfactant is a surfaceactive ingredient, which, in this case, acted as a charge-neutralizing agent. Barium sulfonate was added to increase the spreading of the PTFE submicron particles.

I surmise that the sulphonates in the barium sulphonate reacted with the Monoflour and created concentrations of highly reactive acids around the PTFE particles.

[ September 13, 2002, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[deepsquat]

this from the tufoil website :Tufoil is a super suspension of micro-miniature PTFE particles and soluble Molybdenum, permanently suspended in oil. All moving parts become coated with PTFE particles which reduce friction and wear. Will not clog filters or oil openings.

http://www.tufstuff.com/tufoil/index.html
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Deepsquat,

Why not add some oil only containg PTFE after running a baseline with your favorite oil and see if it reduces wear metals
------------------------------------------------
That is what I have done will send off the sample tomorrow ..already have posted a baseline
...

 

[Bio-T]

deepsquat,
Thanks for the link, as Tufoil states it now contains moly also. I stand corrected and should not go by memory.

 

[MolaKule]

Deepsquat,

Thanks for the clarification.

However, it will be the Moly that will be doing the lubrication. I am still not convinced that PTFE will bond to metal as a colloidal suspension. As stated above, if it were to coat metal, it is going to shear off in high shear situations, such as in rings and cam lobes.

Solid Teflon bearings or metal shells coated with teflon are great for low speed, light load applications. To coat metal with teflons, you have to heat the metal in a vacuum and introduce polytetraethylfouride gas under an electrostatic field (high voltage) in order to get the teflon to bond. The metal also has to be "pitted" with an acid before this process is done.

The real test would be to do a baseline and then introduce a colloidal suspension of teflon only, without any other barrier additives present.