Lean-burn engines; anyone make them?

[blackman777]

Lean burn engines used to be... not common, but available as an option. GM and Toyota used to sell them. Honda sold a lean-burn engine nonstop from 1976 to 2006..... thirty years. Then they discontinued it.

In 2014 is anybody still selling lean burn in their cars?

 

[badtlc]

I think most DI engines have a lean burn mode available under closed loop operation depending on some variables.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: blackman777
Lean burn engines used to be... not common, but available as an option. GM and Toyota used to sell them. Honda sold a lean-burn engine nonstop from 1976 to 2006..... thirty years. Then they discontinued it.

In 2014 is anybody still selling lean burn in their cars?


Honda had to stop because a lean burn engine that uses very little fuel running down the highway is not environmentally friendly.

I don't understand the logic behind it.

I know on ecomodder, they go crazy over lean-burn civics!

 

[javacontour]

Lean burn ends up producing NOx, which is linked to acid rain. The emissions standards have pretty much eliminated lean-burn in the US.

 

[IndyIan]

I think N0x goes too high with a lean burn in a gas engine. And I guess there's no reasonable catalytic reaction to change it to something more acceptable. Diesels are all lean burn though, except for the rolling coal guys...
I imagine some after market tuners must offer a lean burn tune though? Just open the throttle and advance the timing while reducing fuel.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan

I imagine some after market tuners must offer a lean burn tune though? Just open the throttle and advance the timing while reducing fuel.


You're right, the 1990 era GM computers had "lean burn" in their programming. It was open loop as it was not stoichometric and the narrowband o2 was helpless. The EPA caught on and made them reflash it, but the code is still in the chip. It's just enabled to start at 255 MPH IIRC. Anyone with an $11 EEPROM burner can get in and mess with it.

The PROM style computers went out of fashion in preparation for OBDII but realistically a few years prior.

 

[Quest]

both javacontour and IndyIan hits the point RE: high NOx RE: leanburn engines.

That being said, however, given the computerised technologies, Atkinson cycle engine design (coupled with electric motor aka "hybrid") and most possibly DI (still has a lot of work to do in improving the design), older mechanical or early days of computer controlled lean-burn technologies are no longer a fad (and it costs a lot of money too).

Q.

 

[Chris142]

I remembet in the 70's Chrysler played with this and it didn't work.

 

[JHZR2]

In our infinite wisdom, we trade TONS of CO2 and other garbage for a tiny bit of NOx.

 

[badtlc]

FYI, the "ultra lean burn" in DI engines is also called stratified charge by VW/audi. I think stratified is the general term for most DI automakers.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
In our infinite wisdom, we trade TONS of CO2 and other garbage for a tiny bit of NOx.


In my utopia a car would "know" it's in a smog zone (LA basin) and tune out its NOx only where necessary. Save the country some CO2.

Could easily be done with GPS, FM radio subcarrier, etc.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
In our infinite wisdom, we trade TONS of CO2 and other garbage for a tiny bit of NOx.


The CO2 stuff will be dying out now that it is not a greenhouse gas.

 

[NateDN10]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
In our infinite wisdom, we trade TONS of CO2 and other garbage for a tiny bit of NOx.


The CO2 stuff will be dying out now that it is not a greenhouse gas.

What?

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
In our infinite wisdom, we trade TONS of CO2 and other garbage for a tiny bit of NOx.


The CO2 stuff will be dying out now that it is not a greenhouse gas.

What?


The original NASA model that was developed in the late 80s that showed CO2 was a greenhouse gas was updated about 2 years ago. The new model and studies showed CO2 actually produced cooling in the upper atmosphere. There is nothing indicating CO2 causes warming, even in the lower atmosphere.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
In our infinite wisdom, we trade TONS of CO2 and other garbage for a tiny bit of NOx.


I hear that. I guess it was determined to be the lesser of the evils? Less NOx, but more fuel being burnt, more CO2 like you say, more water vapor and wasted heat being produced.

We've gone backwards fuel economy wise.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
In our infinite wisdom, we trade TONS of CO2 and other garbage for a tiny bit of NOx.


The CO2 stuff will be dying out now that it is not a greenhouse gas.

What?


The original NASA model that was developed in the late 80s that showed CO2 was a greenhouse gas was updated about 2 years ago. The new model and studies showed CO2 actually produced cooling in the upper atmosphere. There is nothing indicating CO2 causes warming, even in the lower atmosphere.


AH! So that's why Al Gore sold Current TV ... must be his Carbon Trading stuff is going to be coming to an end?

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: Miller88

AH! So that's why Al Gore sold Current TV ... must be his Carbon Trading stuff is going to be coming to an end?


It should, but I think they'll milk as much money out of it as long as they can.

 

[SF0059]

Once you've trained a generation using faulty science there is very little that will change. CO2's classification change will mean little to nothing with regard to how the public views emissions.

 

[blackman777]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I guess there's no reasonable catalytic reaction to change NOx to something more acceptable.

Both the Insight and 2002-05 Civic hybrids capture NOx in a separate unit. The engine then switches to normal burn mode to empty that unit & convert NOx to harmless N2 and O2.

Honda could still be making these lean-burn engines but instead of qualifying for SULEV/PZEV and getting "EV" credits, the cars would be rated as LEV (and no credits). Honda decided to turn-off the lean mode & go for the credits.

 

[NateDN10]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
In our infinite wisdom, we trade TONS of CO2 and other garbage for a tiny bit of NOx.


The CO2 stuff will be dying out now that it is not a greenhouse gas.

What?


The original NASA model that was developed in the late 80s that showed CO2 was a greenhouse gas was updated about 2 years ago. The new model and studies showed CO2 actually produced cooling in the upper atmosphere. There is nothing indicating CO2 causes warming, even in the lower atmosphere.

This is false. The NASA study you're referring to is specifically studying what happens when solar flares hit the earth. Almost no one in the scientific community denies that CO2 is a major factor in global warming.

source: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/03/28/a-...ing-the-rounds/