Originally Posted By: blackman777
The company saves money by not installing Soot filters or Urea catalysts
There is a DPF.
The company saves money by not installing Soot filters or Urea catalysts
There is a DPF.
Lean-burn engines; anyone make them?
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WOW, this is a great thread. For about four decades I have tinkered and worked on improving my MPG in mostly my Chevy vans.
Really enjoyed reading this thread.
So far with not real usable improvements.
In the 80s with a stock Chevy G20 Van with a 350 and 350 auto then a switch pitch TH400 auto I tried to help its MPG. I tried two things, a quad with small primaries and put in one or two sized smaller main jets and thicker metering rods and added water injection.
I drove with a vacuum gauge and was very aware of the rods lifting out of the jets at about 10 inches or less of vacuum, and hated seeing that happen. Sadly my early efforts show no real improvements.
In the mid to late 90s I discovered the Third Get Camaro site: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/
And was captured by a thread they by a post found by an internet search that read “OMG that is 35 MPG!!!”
This was just about dead center in a long thread which started with a bragging contest between American Camaro owners and Australian Camaro owners, these were 1985 and up TPI Camaros, which at first was normal, my car can burn rubber so far etc.
But the one Aussy said, “ Well I get 35 MPG in MY Camaro… “ ( the American Camaro got at best 25MPG) and they were off back and forth first claiming lies etc, but more and more down under drivers back up the claim. So they compared engines, gear ratios everything and could not find anything different.
They also made sure that each countries mile and gallon was the same, which is where I found the thread with the OMG…
Then the American Camaro guys FOUND it: A Easter Egg in the PCM, the Lean Burn program. And it could be turned on and bingo the American Camaros now could also get 35MPG.
And they also figured out it was making more NOX.
At that point I sold my then rebuilt Olds 403 engine I had built for my then 1998 Chevy van and started buying up complete TPI systems with their PCMs and wiring harness with the plan on putting one on a Chevy van.
Buy as it has been said life has a way of getting in the way of our plans and I have not done anything with those set ups yet. And thanks to new info may never.
But I did run into a company and MPG system in 2008. It was a find in my still ongoing research for some add on that could greatly improve my MPG and was looking into the HHO stories claiming up to 100MPG.
For those whom may not heard of HHO it is claimer that by cracking by electrolyze water back into its two main components of two parts Hydrogen and one part Oxygen (the HHO) and then injecting this combo of gasses into the car’s engine claiming boosting the cars MPG. We installed a number of these units with only a couple of cars seemly getting around 70 MPG up from their stock 32 MPG. Sadly each owner took off before we could really do a long 300Mile test to fully prove it.
And our own cars did not work with this system…
Later I did get to do a lot of testing on a 2000 Mercury Grand Marques and again not one HHO system ever worked.
I did try lean burn and it did give a 5mpg improvement , up from a pure highway MPG of 30MPH at 65MPH to 35MPG with the max the 4.6 Ford V8 could handle of 16.3 A/F ratio, father and misfire happened and MPG dropped. EGT did not rise by much but power was down a lot. This was NOT a setting I could drive with full time, but it showed a 5MPG was possible.
A few things I have learned and think:
So far HHO does not work, even pure hydrogen from a tank did nothing.
Lean burn can give 5 to 10MPG. Problem is getting a program to fade into it at light loads and throttle settings and TO fade out fast when more load and or throttle is needed.
All the cars and trucks I own can get great MPG IF I can stand driving at their 1500 to 1800 RPM range no matter how slow that is.
I am working on adding a second overdrive to lower the RPMS to that range at highway speeds of 80MPH. In my case I have two old school Borg Warner 1950/60s 3 speed with overdrive and will just remove the overdrive section and mate it to the automatic 4 speeds giving a 5th gear and making IF I want a 8 speed out of the auto’s 4 gears. It is called gear splitting…OD on each gear..
For my 93 Custom G20 Chevy road Van I am building a VERY special 383.
And I already believe I have a custom chip for ITS stock OBDI PCM, which I plan on using once it is broken in.
Here is an idea not covered: EGR, I have read adding more EGR (Engine Exhaust Regeneration) can: Lower the burn temps (less NOX) reburn some of the unburned gas that was not burned in the first time though the chamber, displace in coming air and fuel thus limiting it, AND thanks to the loss of power can cause more throttle causing a more WOT and cutting pumping losses.
I am looking into how to add much more EGR that the stock EGR valves do and controlling it.
So a special low RPM Torque 383, a lean burn chip, an EGR increase and lastly a second overdrive for low RPMS at 80MPH… I am HOPING for a full size van to get 20 to 25 MPG or more….
Now if only we had some real practical ways of doing all of this.
Suggestions and HOW Tos please.
Rich
Really enjoyed reading this thread.
So far with not real usable improvements.
In the 80s with a stock Chevy G20 Van with a 350 and 350 auto then a switch pitch TH400 auto I tried to help its MPG. I tried two things, a quad with small primaries and put in one or two sized smaller main jets and thicker metering rods and added water injection.
I drove with a vacuum gauge and was very aware of the rods lifting out of the jets at about 10 inches or less of vacuum, and hated seeing that happen. Sadly my early efforts show no real improvements.
In the mid to late 90s I discovered the Third Get Camaro site: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/
And was captured by a thread they by a post found by an internet search that read “OMG that is 35 MPG!!!”
This was just about dead center in a long thread which started with a bragging contest between American Camaro owners and Australian Camaro owners, these were 1985 and up TPI Camaros, which at first was normal, my car can burn rubber so far etc.
But the one Aussy said, “ Well I get 35 MPG in MY Camaro… “ ( the American Camaro got at best 25MPG) and they were off back and forth first claiming lies etc, but more and more down under drivers back up the claim. So they compared engines, gear ratios everything and could not find anything different.
They also made sure that each countries mile and gallon was the same, which is where I found the thread with the OMG…
Then the American Camaro guys FOUND it: A Easter Egg in the PCM, the Lean Burn program. And it could be turned on and bingo the American Camaros now could also get 35MPG.
And they also figured out it was making more NOX.
At that point I sold my then rebuilt Olds 403 engine I had built for my then 1998 Chevy van and started buying up complete TPI systems with their PCMs and wiring harness with the plan on putting one on a Chevy van.
Buy as it has been said life has a way of getting in the way of our plans and I have not done anything with those set ups yet. And thanks to new info may never.
But I did run into a company and MPG system in 2008. It was a find in my still ongoing research for some add on that could greatly improve my MPG and was looking into the HHO stories claiming up to 100MPG.
For those whom may not heard of HHO it is claimer that by cracking by electrolyze water back into its two main components of two parts Hydrogen and one part Oxygen (the HHO) and then injecting this combo of gasses into the car’s engine claiming boosting the cars MPG. We installed a number of these units with only a couple of cars seemly getting around 70 MPG up from their stock 32 MPG. Sadly each owner took off before we could really do a long 300Mile test to fully prove it.
And our own cars did not work with this system…
Later I did get to do a lot of testing on a 2000 Mercury Grand Marques and again not one HHO system ever worked.
I did try lean burn and it did give a 5mpg improvement , up from a pure highway MPG of 30MPH at 65MPH to 35MPG with the max the 4.6 Ford V8 could handle of 16.3 A/F ratio, father and misfire happened and MPG dropped. EGT did not rise by much but power was down a lot. This was NOT a setting I could drive with full time, but it showed a 5MPG was possible.
A few things I have learned and think:
So far HHO does not work, even pure hydrogen from a tank did nothing.
Lean burn can give 5 to 10MPG. Problem is getting a program to fade into it at light loads and throttle settings and TO fade out fast when more load and or throttle is needed.
All the cars and trucks I own can get great MPG IF I can stand driving at their 1500 to 1800 RPM range no matter how slow that is.
I am working on adding a second overdrive to lower the RPMS to that range at highway speeds of 80MPH. In my case I have two old school Borg Warner 1950/60s 3 speed with overdrive and will just remove the overdrive section and mate it to the automatic 4 speeds giving a 5th gear and making IF I want a 8 speed out of the auto’s 4 gears. It is called gear splitting…OD on each gear..
For my 93 Custom G20 Chevy road Van I am building a VERY special 383.
And I already believe I have a custom chip for ITS stock OBDI PCM, which I plan on using once it is broken in.
Here is an idea not covered: EGR, I have read adding more EGR (Engine Exhaust Regeneration) can: Lower the burn temps (less NOX) reburn some of the unburned gas that was not burned in the first time though the chamber, displace in coming air and fuel thus limiting it, AND thanks to the loss of power can cause more throttle causing a more WOT and cutting pumping losses.
I am looking into how to add much more EGR that the stock EGR valves do and controlling it.
So a special low RPM Torque 383, a lean burn chip, an EGR increase and lastly a second overdrive for low RPMS at 80MPH… I am HOPING for a full size van to get 20 to 25 MPG or more….
Now if only we had some real practical ways of doing all of this.
Suggestions and HOW Tos please.
Rich
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What about doing what diesels do to neutralize Nox which is DEF? Why not have a lean gasoline engine that uses DEF?
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2019
- Messages
- 631
Lol, just realized this is a 7 year old thread.
I was pointed to it by a post on a thread I started on https://ecomodder.com/forum about fuel flow sensors for a old MPG computer.
Hopeful I can bring new life to it.
" What about doing what diesels do to neutralize Nox which is DEF? Why not have a lean gasoline engine that uses DEF? "
As for gasoline cars my understanding is you can add a little water injection of add EGR to clear the NOX.
Rich
Hopeful I can bring new life to it.
" What about doing what diesels do to neutralize Nox which is DEF? Why not have a lean gasoline engine that uses DEF? "
As for gasoline cars my understanding is you can add a little water injection of add EGR to clear the NOX.
Rich
Personally I think the NOX is a red herring, a way to keep us in gas gusting cars.
In Europe where they made all electronics manufacturers remove even the little lead from all components two decades ago does NOT seem to control this gas.
Now for a real eye opener watch this:
Top Gear Season 12 Show #4 June 12 2013 where Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May are challenged to drive from the heart of Switzerland to the North Western coast of England on just one tank of fuel, a trip of some 740 Miles. On one tank of gas in a new car of each own choosing.
And as an incentive, the first one to arrive gets to turn on the Blackpool Illuminations. So there was time limit so they had to drive as near normal speeds with no stops.
Believe it or not there was a VW car rated at 75MPG STOCK..with a 10 gallon tank.
Rich
In Europe where they made all electronics manufacturers remove even the little lead from all components two decades ago does NOT seem to control this gas.
Now for a real eye opener watch this:
Top Gear Season 12 Show #4 June 12 2013 where Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May are challenged to drive from the heart of Switzerland to the North Western coast of England on just one tank of fuel, a trip of some 740 Miles. On one tank of gas in a new car of each own choosing.
And as an incentive, the first one to arrive gets to turn on the Blackpool Illuminations. So there was time limit so they had to drive as near normal speeds with no stops.
Believe it or not there was a VW car rated at 75MPG STOCK..with a 10 gallon tank.
Rich
So, the 200 MPG carburetor is now an “Easter Egg” in a PCM?
And the laws of thermodynamics have been repealed?
I get more energy from re-combining water than it takes to split it?
Sure...sure...
Let’s start a new thread if the conspiracy theories interest you...
And the laws of thermodynamics have been repealed?
I get more energy from re-combining water than it takes to split it?
Sure...sure...
Let’s start a new thread if the conspiracy theories interest you...
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