Lawsuit: Hybrid taxis couldn't handle NYC streets

Status
Not open for further replies.
The Critic

The Critic

Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Messages
31,961
Location
CA
Where's the proof?
54.gif


Quote:
NEW YORK — Taxi operators have sued the city over requiring yellow cabs to go green, saying cars that run on a mix of gasoline and electric power can't handle the workout they would get on New York City streets.

The lawsuit was filed in U.S. District Court on Monday, weeks before an Oct. 1 deadline requiring new cabs to get 25 miles per gallon. It asked a federal judge to strike down the city requirement.

It claims that hybrid vehicles were not built to withstand the pounding that city taxis endure or to be used in commercial fleets. The lawsuit is partly based on an engineer's report that hybrids could not handle 24-hour operation and that air bags might not deploy in taxis that have safety partitions between the driver and passengers.

City law department spokeswoman Kate O'Brien Ahlers said the city hadn't seen the legal papers but expected to consider all its legal actions once it did.

The lawsuit was filed by the Metropolitan Taxicab Board of Trade, a trade association claiming to represent a quarter of the city's 13,000 cabs. Other plaintiffs include a garage that services taxis and a leasing company.

The report's author, automotive engineer C. Bruce Gambardella, said the cars needed to undergo crash testing before being added to the fleet.

"It is completely unknown whether these modified cars would pass federal crash tests," he said. "No automaker would put such an inadequately tested vehicle on the road, nor should the public or any federal regulatory agency stand for it."


http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Sep09/0,4670,TaxicabSuit,00.html
 
i still would never buy one. I'm not a tree hugger by any means, but the damage caused to the environment from the production of the batteries makes me feel ok about not having cats on my mustang.
 
So they're suing only on assumption that hybrids won't last the streets of New York? I mean c'mon... They're driving FORDS right now. (no offense to mustangs)

I think hybrids make the most sense in congested cities. That's where they really outshine ANY other type of vehicle on the road, including it's diesel competitor.
 
The Ford Crown Vic is as tough as they come, I'm sure it can take more abuse than any hybrid, but if the cabbies had to pay for their own fuel they'd be singing a different tune.
 
We don't know if they experienced undue down time or suspension damage that took them out of service way too often ..or they can't travel as fast and it's like competing with those ...what the heck are they called ..Segway. They apparently will have choices between Altima's, Escapes, and Malibu's.

The Crown Vic is such an icon in traffic ..I think that they can't handle the culture shock.

The plan for an all-hybrid was announced last May, and in December, the commission unanimously approved new regulations that will require all new taxicabs, starting in October, to achieve a fuel-efficiency rating of 25 miles per gallon in the city. By October 2009, the requirement will be raised further, to 30 miles per gallon. The regulations are intended to ensure that by 2012 the entire taxi fleet will consist of hybrid vehicles or other “clean vehicles” that are far more energy efficient than traditional gasoline-powered vehicles with internal combustion engines.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/16/plan-for-hybrid-taxi-fleet-moves-forward/
 
Originally Posted By: wcbcruzer
So they're suing only on assumption that hybrids won't last the streets of New York? I mean c'mon... They're driving FORDS right now. (no offense to mustangs)

I think hybrids make the most sense in congested cities. That's where they really outshine ANY other type of vehicle on the road, including it's diesel competitor.


The Crown Vic is one of, if not THE most reliable car on the road, and is driven harder, and accumulates more mileage than any other car. There is a reason it's the predominant choice of taxi, limousine and law enforcement. It's big, safe and reliable. It also handles reasonably well, gets decent MPG and will take abuse like some masochistic nutjob!

Every car since the Caprice has failed MISERABLY at taking any of the wind out from behind the Vic's sails and there is a reason for that.

Most cars are in the wreckers long before they ever reach HALF of what a Vic will rack up in service mileage.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
We don't know if they experienced undue down time or suspension damage that took them out of service way too often ..or they can't travel as fast and it's like competing with those ...what the heck are they called ..Segway. They apparently will have choices between Altima's, Escapes, and Malibu's.

The Crown Vic is such an icon in traffic ..I think that they can't handle the culture shock.

The plan for an all-hybrid was announced last May, and in December, the commission unanimously approved new regulations that will require all new taxicabs, starting in October, to achieve a fuel-efficiency rating of 25 miles per gallon in the city. By October 2009, the requirement will be raised further, to 30 miles per gallon. The regulations are intended to ensure that by 2012 the entire taxi fleet will consist of hybrid vehicles or other “clean vehicles” that are far more energy efficient than traditional gasoline-powered vehicles with internal combustion engines.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/16/plan-for-hybrid-taxi-fleet-moves-forward/


So when are they going to start forcing highway tractors to get this kind of mileage? Like come on, I'm sure some loon out there somewhere has come up with some conceptual high MPG tractor trailer that is completely untested in field usage but that the government can force upon tractor trailer firms in the push for "getting green"..........
 
Originally Posted By: ms21043
The Ford Crown Vic is as tough as they come


Absolutely true. My car was abused for about 85,000 miles by the police department before I bought it, and I've put about 40,000 miles on it that were probably harder than the police miles. It's showing absolutely no signs of giving up.
 
I'll bet that no other cars are required to be crash tested for suitability, so the argument that Priuses aren't suitable because they haven't been crash tested with dividers is moot.

Taxis down here are traditional Ford Falcons, or Holden Commodores. It appears that the OEMs make "strip downs" with vinyl seats and no carpet for the market. They are fitted with Propane, and accumulate huge miles.

A local 15 years ago tried a new form of competition to the usual, by getting a RWD Nissan sedan, with a 2 litre DOHC twin spark engine...he argued that the 4cyl's mileage meant that he didn't need the gas conversion, 8 months later, it was on Gas. 18 months later, it looked like a dilapidated wreck, with front end clunking and creaking, doors misaligned...

Funnily WRT hybrids, the hire car (Limo) industry have been pushing to allow Lexus hybrids to be introduced as limos...which has previously been denied, as they are too small to be limos. They got approval, and are becoming popular.


We've got a fleet of Priuses at work, and they have a lot less rattles and clunks than the Commondores at their 30,000 mile trade in.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
We don't know if they experienced undue down time or suspension damage that took them out of service way too often ..or they can't travel as fast and it's like competing with those ...what the heck are they called ..Segway. They apparently will have choices between Altima's, Escapes, and Malibu's.

The Crown Vic is such an icon in traffic ..I think that they can't handle the culture shock.

The plan for an all-hybrid was announced last May, and in December, the commission unanimously approved new regulations that will require all new taxicabs, starting in October, to achieve a fuel-efficiency rating of 25 miles per gallon in the city. By October 2009, the requirement will be raised further, to 30 miles per gallon. The regulations are intended to ensure that by 2012 the entire taxi fleet will consist of hybrid vehicles or other “clean vehicles” that are far more energy efficient than traditional gasoline-powered vehicles with internal combustion engines.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/16/plan-for-hybrid-taxi-fleet-moves-forward/


So when are they going to start forcing highway tractors to get this kind of mileage? Like come on, I'm sure some loon out there somewhere has come up with some conceptual high MPG tractor trailer that is completely untested in field usage but that the government can force upon tractor trailer firms in the push for "getting green"..........


The big problem with trying to achieve high MPG highway tractors is that they are often pulling very heavy loads and pushing a lot of air out of the way while moving down the road.

The aerodynamically styled trucks such as Volvo have improved the "air pushing" compared to conventional tractors such as the Peterbilt. Also, Kenworth have released a hybrid heavy duty truck.

It will take longer to achieve better economy with these vehicles given the loads they move. As well, the market place (trucking companies) are very slow to adopt the new technology and tend to purchase what has worked for them in the past until the new technology is proven over the long haul (read 1 million miles).
 
That lawsuit should be defeated with a one word answer: "Vancouver".

They've been using hybrids as taxis up there for some time, with great success. Here's one decent article that surfaced with one quick google: hybrid cab article.

Here's a particularly pertinent quote from the linked article:
Quote:
Everyone thought those (hybrid cab pioneer) guys were crazy, but when they started making more money per shift, the others started to think differently.
 
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Cabbies probably do not want to buy expensive unproven in taxi use cars.


Except that they turn out to cost less to operate than comparable taxis (see article linked in prior post), and they have been proven in taxi service...
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Every car since the Caprice has failed MISERABLY at taking any of the wind out from behind the Vic's sails and there is a reason for that.


The reason is that there's no real competition for it?

The Crown Vic is a niche car, just as the Prius is.
 
Originally Posted By: wcbcruzer
So they're suing only on assumption that hybrids won't last the streets of New York? I mean c'mon... They're driving FORDS right now.


Yep, Fords that can rack up 600,000 miles of hard driving.

The Crown Vic is THE car for high miles and hard use.
 
Has anybody here seen how NYC cabbies drive? I'm amazed to see Crown Vics last as long as they do with the constant stop/go/heavy acceleration/stomping on the brakes they face. Not to mention, the roads in Manhattan can be very tough on a vehicles suspension/chassis.

Yes the CVs may be a "niche" car but it handles that niche very well. Some of the NYC yellow cab CVs are running on natural gas.

I've already seen some hybrids rolling around in NYC. This includes Ford Escape Hybrids and an occasional Prius. (Side question, what is the plural term for "Prius"?) I'm curious how well the hybrids do in real world NYC MPG when compared to the high EPA city mileage rating on the hybrids.

I have yet to ride in a hybrid NYC cab so I'm not sure how much the rear seat room suffers with the security partition installed. The newer CVs in the NYC fleet are those special extended versions that basically give you the leg room back that was lost when the partitions are installed in standard CVs.

Ed B.
 
Maybe they should just import the British Taxi. A few years back we had a chance to spend a week in one of these with a tour guide. Great MPG, excellent ride, and plenty of room.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

AEHaas
Another "Taxi" Study: Relationship of Engine Bearing Wear and Oil Rheology 872128
17 18 19
Replies
361
Views
25K
TiGeo
AEHaas
The Frequently Quoted “Taxi Study” SAE 2005-01-3818
2
Replies
22
Views
4K
JohnnyO
y_p_w
Trevor Jacob pleads guilty to obstruction for covering up deliberate crash where he bailed out
Replies
13
Views
1K
ctechbob
OVERKILL
Offshore wind industry in dire straights
2
Replies
26
Views
2K
4WD
M
Replaced bilstein with fox after 25,000 miles, f150
2
Replies
25
Views
6K
meep
Back
Top