kn oil filter

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: postjeeprcr
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
"Nano Technology"? Come on Donald, that is fabricated advertising smoke.

I do agree however Amsoil's filter design is very good, Champ makes those as well if I'm not mistaken.


Nano technology is used in a lot of things these days. There is a nano technology center at the U of Albany. It simply refers to the size of the fibers in their synthetic media. Basically 1 billionith.

SI prefixes
Prefix Symbol 1000m 10n Decimal Short scale Long scale Since[n 1]
yotta Y 10008 1024 1000000000000000000000000 Septillion Quadrillion 1991
zetta Z 10007 1021 1000000000000000000000 Sextillion Trilliard 1991
exa E 10006 1018 1000000000000000000 Quintillion Trillion 1975
peta P 10005 1015 1000000000000000 Quadrillion Billiard 1975
tera T 10004 1012 1000000000000 Trillion Billion 1960
giga G 10003 109 1000000000 Billion Milliard 1960
mega M 10002 106 1000000 Million 1960
kilo k 10001 103 1000 Thousand 1795
hecto h 10002/3 102 100 Hundred 1795
deca da 10001/3 101 10 Ten 1795
10000 100 1 One –
deci d 1000−1/3 10−1 0.1 Tenth 1795
centi c 1000−2/3 10−2 0.01 Hundredth 1795
milli m 1000−1 10−3 0.001 Thousandth 1795
micro μ 1000−2 10−6 0.000001 Millionth 1960
nano n 1000−3 10−9 0.000000001 Billionth Milliardth 1960
pico p 1000−4 10−12 0.000000000001 Trillionth Billionth 1960
femto f 1000−5 10−15 0.000000000000001 Quadrillionth Billiardth 1964
atto a 1000−6 10−18 0.000000000000000001 Quintillionth Trillionth 1964
zepto z 1000−7 10−21 0.000000000000000000001 Sextillionth Trilliardth 1991
yocto y 1000−8 10−24 0.000000000000000000000001 Septillionth Quadrillionth 1991
^ The metric system was introduced in 1795 with six prefixes. The other dates relate to recognition by a resolution of the CGPM.


Nano technology is used in a lot of areas today but I wonder what makes their fibers "nano"


The thickness of an individual fiber in their media.

 

[Boss302fan]

Bottom line is that all the above filters are very good...Most likely, none of us would be able to tell the difference between any of them when comparing long term engine wear...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: Radman
K&N & Mobil 1's are undoubtedly the best filters on the market. Mobil 1's are the same oil filter but without a nut mounted on the can. Although they are also the most expensive filters on the market with K&N costing 2 dollars more for the nut. Dollar for dollar the Pure 1's are my favorite for daily street use. Of course for high RPM racing Mobil/K&N is my choice.


While more expensive I believe Amsoil has the best filter available. No one else (that I am aware) of has nano technology. That does not make it the best, but its one of the factors.


I wonder what Donaldson's take on this is, since they designed the media. I've never heard them refer to it at "Nano technology" media, simply synthetic glass.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Radman
Originally Posted By: Boomer
I disagree with Mobil 1 and K&N being the same except for the nut. K&N has always been known for being a high flow filter. Mobil 1 is known for taking out small particles. There is a difference in the media. If I was racing, I'd use the K&N. If I wanted longevity fo an engine, I'd use Mobil 1.


There isn't a difference in the media between K&N & Mobil. The difference is K&N has a nut and Mobil doesn't. I do my research prior to posting. Perhaps if we all would adopt this philosophy there will be allot less misinformation on the board.


Where did you find this "concrete" information on this being the case? All I've ever head has been speculation regarding this, since they are both Champion Labs filters and have similar efficiency ratings.

 

[Radman]

I buy Mobil M1-105 oil filters for my Maxima. That oil filter has been dropped by the Mobil line up. I contacted Champion Labs because I wanted to verify if there was a difference between the Mobil M1-105 & the K&N HP-1005 which is still available. Champion labs told me that the only difference between the two lines is the welded nut and the paint scheme. That goes for all Mobil & K&N'oil filters, not just the one I was researching.

 

[Mike_dup1]

Quote:
I wonder what Donaldson's take on this is, since they designed the media. I've never heard them refer to it at "Nano technology" media, simply synthetic glass.


Hence the EA filters..

I found this in less than 1 min

Quote:
Donaldson Endurance™ air filters, made using Donaldson’s advanced Ultra-Web® nanofiber technology, deliver cost saving benefits:
• Longer filter life with submicron
contaminant
• Ideal for extended maintenance intervals
• Longer engine life
So whether you want to extend maintenance intervals to the limit or extend engine life, the use of Donaldson Endurance high efficiency filters can lower your total operating costs.



Quote:
Nanofiber Webs from Electrospinning
1. CHARACTERISTICS OF SMALL FIBERS IN AIR FILTRATION - THEORY
Small fibers in the submicron range, in comparison with larger ones, are well known to provide better filter efficiency at the same pressure drop in the interception and inertial impaction regimes. W.C. Hinds shows such effect by assuming non-slip flow at fiber surface [1].
Timothy H. Grafe, Kristine M. Graham
Donaldson Company Inc.
Minneapolis, MN, USA
While smaller fiber size leads to higher pressure drop, interception and inertial impaction efficiencies will increase faster, more than compensating for the pressure drop increase. Thus, in the particle size of interest, i.e., from submicron and up, better filter efficiency can be achieved at the same pressure drop, or conversely, the same filter efficiency at lower pressure drop can be achieved with smaller fiber sizes.
ABSTRACT


Quote:
2. METHOD FOR MAKING NANOFIBERS
Polymeric nanofibers can be made using the electrospinning process, which has been described in the literature [5] and in patents [6]. Electrospinning uses an electric field to draw a polymer solution from the tip of a capillary to a collector. A voltage is applied to the polymer solution, which causes a jet of the solution to be drawn toward a grounded collector. The fine jets dry to form polymeric fibers, which can be collected on a web. The electrospinning process has been documented using a variety of fiber forming polymers [7, 8]. By choosing a suitable polymer and solvent system, nanofibers with diameters in the range of 40-2000 nm can be made.


Quote:
Conclusions
Nanofiber filter media has been successfully used in a variety of filtration applications
ranging from engine air cleaners to cabin filters for mining vehicles to self-cleaning filter
systems for industrial applications and turbine vehicles. Due to the sub-half-micron fiber
diameter of nanofibers and the thin nanoweb layer possible, significant boosts in filter
efficiency are possible with minimal pressure drop increases.
In both static and self-cleaning filtration applications, nanofiber filter media has
demonstrated longer filter life over several conventional filtering materials. Filter
engineers are continually balancing the three major technical parameters of filter
performance: filter efficiency, pressure drop, and filter life. An improvement in one
category generally means a corresponding sacrifice in another category. However, the
proper use of nanofibers can provide favorable improvements in both filtration efficiency
and life, while having a minimal impact on pressure drop.
It is expected that continued technical development will lead to the use of nanofiber filter
media in several new applications including light vehicle engine filters, fuel cells, HVAC
filters and liquid filters in the years to come.



Nanofibers
PDF Nanofiber Webs from Electrospinning
PDF INTC 2003: Quality Control in Manufacturing of Electrospun Nanofiber Composites
PDF Polymeric Nanofibres in High Efficiency Filtration Applications
PDF AFS2002: Polymeric Nanofibers in Air Filtration Applications
PDF INTC2003: Incorporation of Electrospun Nanofibers into Functional Structures
PDF Filtration 2001: Nanofibers in Filtration Applications in Transportation
PDF INTC 2002: Polymeric Nanofibers and Nanofiber Webs: A New Class of Nonwovens
PDF Nanofiber Webs from Electrospinning

 

[NavyDood]

Amsoil only used to carry the Donaldson Endurance until they came out with their own filter, the EaO lineup. Donaldson Endurance and Amsoil EaO filters are the same media. Donaldson calls it SynTeq and Amsoil calls it NanoFiber. Amsoil bought the manufacturing rights from Donaldson to manufacture the media themselves. Donaldson Endurance (SynTeq) filters are oriented towards the industrial/diesel market where Amsoil expounded upon that and brought NanoFiber wide stream to the gas market also.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Mike_dup1
Quote:
I wonder what Donaldson's take on this is, since they designed the media. I've never heard them refer to it at "Nano technology" media, simply synthetic glass.


Hence the EA filters..

I found this in less than 1 min

Quote:
Donaldson Endurance™ air filters, made using Donaldson’s advanced Ultra-Web® nanofiber technology, deliver cost saving benefits:
• Longer filter life with submicron
contaminant
• Ideal for extended maintenance intervals
• Longer engine life
So whether you want to extend maintenance intervals to the limit or extend engine life, the use of Donaldson Endurance high efficiency filters can lower your total operating costs.



Quote:
Nanofiber Webs from Electrospinning
1. CHARACTERISTICS OF SMALL FIBERS IN AIR FILTRATION - THEORY
Small fibers in the submicron range, in comparison with larger ones, are well known to provide better filter efficiency at the same pressure drop in the interception and inertial impaction regimes. W.C. Hinds shows such effect by assuming non-slip flow at fiber surface [1].
Timothy H. Grafe, Kristine M. Graham
Donaldson Company Inc.
Minneapolis, MN, USA
While smaller fiber size leads to higher pressure drop, interception and inertial impaction efficiencies will increase faster, more than compensating for the pressure drop increase. Thus, in the particle size of interest, i.e., from submicron and up, better filter efficiency can be achieved at the same pressure drop, or conversely, the same filter efficiency at lower pressure drop can be achieved with smaller fiber sizes.
ABSTRACT


Quote:
2. METHOD FOR MAKING NANOFIBERS
Polymeric nanofibers can be made using the electrospinning process, which has been described in the literature [5] and in patents [6]. Electrospinning uses an electric field to draw a polymer solution from the tip of a capillary to a collector. A voltage is applied to the polymer solution, which causes a jet of the solution to be drawn toward a grounded collector. The fine jets dry to form polymeric fibers, which can be collected on a web. The electrospinning process has been documented using a variety of fiber forming polymers [7, 8]. By choosing a suitable polymer and solvent system, nanofibers with diameters in the range of 40-2000 nm can be made.


Quote:
Conclusions
Nanofiber filter media has been successfully used in a variety of filtration applications
ranging from engine air cleaners to cabin filters for mining vehicles to self-cleaning filter
systems for industrial applications and turbine vehicles. Due to the sub-half-micron fiber
diameter of nanofibers and the thin nanoweb layer possible, significant boosts in filter
efficiency are possible with minimal pressure drop increases.
In both static and self-cleaning filtration applications, nanofiber filter media has
demonstrated longer filter life over several conventional filtering materials. Filter
engineers are continually balancing the three major technical parameters of filter
performance: filter efficiency, pressure drop, and filter life. An improvement in one
category generally means a corresponding sacrifice in another category. However, the
proper use of nanofibers can provide favorable improvements in both filtration efficiency
and life, while having a minimal impact on pressure drop.
It is expected that continued technical development will lead to the use of nanofiber filter
media in several new applications including light vehicle engine filters, fuel cells, HVAC
filters and liquid filters in the years to come.



Nanofibers
PDF Nanofiber Webs from Electrospinning
PDF INTC 2003: Quality Control in Manufacturing of Electrospun Nanofiber Composites
PDF Polymeric Nanofibres in High Efficiency Filtration Applications
PDF AFS2002: Polymeric Nanofibers in Air Filtration Applications
PDF INTC2003: Incorporation of Electrospun Nanofibers into Functional Structures
PDF Filtration 2001: Nanofibers in Filtration Applications in Transportation
PDF INTC 2002: Polymeric Nanofibers and Nanofiber Webs: A New Class of Nonwovens
PDF Nanofiber Webs from Electrospinning



Any reference to the OIL filters Mike? You are citing the Endurance AIR filters there......

The SYNTEQ brochures I have saved show this:

Quote:
Synteq® Media
Donaldson Endurance® lube filters are made
with high performance Synteq® media. The
strictly controlled processing of Synteq® media
results in fibers that have a controlled size and
shape, and a significantly smaller fiber
diameter.
This controlled processing allows Donaldson
Endurance® lube filters to deliver both higher dirt holding
capacity at the same pressure differential and higher efficiency
compared to conventional cellulose filters. Synteq media also
has better durability with usage.
Over the service life of a cellulose filter, hot oil will degrade the
resins that bind the media. Our Synteq media technology uses a
wire screen backing that is pleated with the media for superior
strength.


No mention of "nano" anything....

Now they may have updated their sheets since the last time I was on the site (I keep local copies) but my comment was specifically in regards to their SYNTEQ media in their OIL filters. And not their air filters.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: NavyDood
Amsoil only used to carry the Donaldson Endurance until they came out with their own filter, the EaO lineup. Donaldson Endurance and Amsoil EaO filters are the same media. Donaldson calls it SynTeq and Amsoil calls it NanoFiber. Amsoil bought the manufacturing rights from Donaldson to manufacture the media themselves. Donaldson Endurance (SynTeq) filters are oriented towards the industrial/diesel market where Amsoil expounded upon that and brought NanoFiber wide stream to the gas market also.


Donaldson does make a (very narrow) range of filters for gas vehicles as well. They make the P169071 for the FL-1A applications and the one that fits the GM Small Block. They may make others as well.

I imagine anybody using the glass media is licensing it from Donaldson, and that would include FleetGuard and Champion Labs.

 

[SteveSRT8]

I'm sure the new buzz word "nano" will become as common as the term "ceramic" is to brake pads.

 

[NavyDood]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Donaldson does make a (very narrow) range of filters for gas vehicles as well. They make the P169071 for the FL-1A applications and the one that fits the GM Small Block. They may make others as well.

I imagine anybody using the glass media is licensing it from Donaldson, and that would include FleetGuard and Champion Labs.
Yes Donaldson does, but like you said it is a very narrow selection.

Fleetguard Stratapore is it's own in-house design, but they could have reverse engineered the Donaldson extended change filters introduced to Cummins back in the 80's.

 

[kemo]

Originally Posted By: Radman
I buy Mobil M1-105 oil filters for my Maxima. That oil filter has been dropped by the Mobil line up. I contacted Champion Labs because I wanted to verify if there was a difference between the Mobil M1-105 & the K&N HP-1005 which is still available. Champion labs told me that the only difference between the two lines is the welded nut and the paint scheme. That goes for all Mobil & K&N'oil filters, not just the one I was researching.


This is false information... Champ Labs will NOT say ANYTHING about this, I have already contacted them myself.

 

[Radman]

I am just repeating what the phone rep told me. It is too bad I didn't have the forethought to make a recording for you.

 

[river_rat]

Wow, kemo---could you be any more abrasive? The guy is just posting his own experience.

Radman: I am not surprised if they chose to use the same media for simplification of manufacture. They are very similar products, made by the same company. The media looks the same as far as I can see under 50X magnification--and they appear to me to filter to the same level.

I have made calls to Champion Labs about Mobil 1 Extended Performance oil filters a couple times with questions for different reps, and got different levels of information from the two reps. They both said something about "proprietory information" but one wouldn't tell me squat, the other one said he could tell me it was "in the ballpark of a 10 micron nominal" filter.
(Depends on who answers the phone, I guess.)

 

[cp3]

Depends on who answers the phone or the email. Via email, I was able to nothing from either Champ or K&N. Champ said proprietary to K&N, K&N said efficiency info was not available.

Working in a production facility that does private labels, it makes perfect sense to me that they would be the same. More cost effective for sure.

 

[Spector]

"There is a difference in the media. If I was racing, I'd use the K&N. If I wanted longevity for an engine, I'd use Mobil 1"


Have to disagree with the above statement. Flow is much more important than filtration in today's modern engines. IMO Go with the flow when it comes to oil filters.

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: Spector
Have to disagree with the above statement. Flow is much more important than filtration in today's modern engines. IMO Go with the flow when it comes to oil filters.

I don't see how there can be any significant difference in flow under normal operating conditions. The filter is a small resistance to oil compared to the bearings, etc. And the oil pump is a constant displacement (per revolution) type except what little leaks by the sides of the rotor or gears. The only time the flow is cut back is when the upstream pressure becomes excessive and the relief valve opens. But the filter type is a pretty low cause of that function, due to its relatively low resistance compared to the rest of the oil system.