Keeping an old Tesla alive...

It will be interesting in general. Li-ion batteries become more dangerous as they age. Push them to their limits, use software to remove all margin, and it’s more risky. Speed, which means battery discharge rate, is a liability due to heat.

While I know Jeff Dahn and others talk about the million mile battery, reality is thst nobody knows what will happen as many of these EVs age.
 
Tesla's eventual plan is for those "million mile batteries" to be removed from vehicles with around 300,000 miles on them and then have the batteries be recycled or repurposed in other Tesla products that don't have the demand upon them that a vehicle has. The consumer will receive a hefty discount on a new battery and the buyer of the second hand vehicle will not have to worry so much about the battery failing.

Elon's plan for world domination is a vision where the Tesla car owner has it insured with Tesla exclusive insurance, with premiums much less than the usual insurance corporations, goes home to a house with Tesla solar panels and a Tesla power wall system, and that house has a Tesla HVAC system. He charges his Tesla for free with stored energy from the solar and/or power wall system and has a zero or extremely low electrical and natural gas bill each month.
 
Just a bit of battery reality. Smaller, lower range batteries don't last as long due to "depth of discharge" issues. Getting many miles from an oversized battery pack is fairly easy. Achieving more than 2000 cycles from any battery (LiFePO4 comes closest) has, so far, proven impossible. Most conventional cells last 500 cycles. Sandbagging and other techniques help mask the issues, but the fact remains, a very large battery pack is the way to get a lot of miles. It simply reduces the cycle count.

It's good to note that Tesla's ever improving range numbers are simply ever larger battery packs. This leads to longer battery life, lower depth of discharge (on a regular basis) and a lower cycle count.
 
Cujet said:
Just a bit of battery reality. Smaller, lower range batteries don't last as long due to "depth of discharge" issues. Getting many miles from an oversized battery pack is fairly easy. Achieving more than 2000 cycles from any battery (LiFePO4 comes closest) has, so far, proven impossible. Most conventional cells last 500 cycles. Sandbagging and other techniques help mask the issues, but the fact remains, a very large battery pack is the way to get a lot of miles. It simply reduces the cycle count.

It's good to note that Tesla's ever improving range numbers are simply ever larger battery packs. This leads to longer battery life, lower depth of discharge (on a regular basis) and a lower cycle count.
Click to expand...

Just found this:

Audi said:
MY2019 - > MY2020

Lidar radar is gone on 2020 model
It is possible to adjust charging target on 2020 models in app.
vin nr has a L as 10 digit for 2020 model example: WAUZZZGE0LB028888
MY2020 - > MY2020v2 (build week 49 2019)

Reduced top buffer. Available battery is increased from 83,6kWh to 86.5kWh
Some other hardware changes without any documented effect.
Also available as e-tron 50 with smaller battery
MY2020v2 - > MY2021 (August 2020)
Click to expand...

The e-tron has a 95kWh battery, which means they were reserving 11.4kWh originally but have dropped that down to 8.5 with the update.
 
Cujet said:
Just a bit of battery reality. Smaller, lower range batteries don't last as long due to "depth of discharge" issues. Getting many miles from an oversized battery pack is fairly easy. Achieving more than 2000 cycles from any battery (LiFePO4 comes closest) has, so far, proven impossible. Most conventional cells last 500 cycles. Sandbagging and other techniques help mask the issues, but the fact remains, a very large battery pack is the way to get a lot of miles. It simply reduces the cycle count.

It's good to note that Tesla's ever improving range numbers are simply ever larger battery packs. This leads to longer battery life, lower depth of discharge (on a regular basis) and a lower cycle count.
Click to expand...

The bigger batteries help for sure.

The KWH per mile is extremely important, only one rig beats the tesla and its driving half as many wheels and its a comparative dog performance wise.


Screen Shot 2021-03-04 at 4.22.05 PM.jpg
 
It will be interesting to see what new cottage industries await. Even totaled from collision, the electric motors will probably be largely intact, and very easy to rebuild for re-use. Modular motor systems could go a long way in all kinds of ways. as battery life cycle tech improves, the mechanicals should prove that much more robust just from the reduction in moving parts. I know it’s a pipe dream, but standardized swap- friendly battery packs would be a game changer.
 
Cujet said:
Just a bit of battery reality. Smaller, lower range batteries don't last as long due to "depth of discharge" issues. Getting many miles from an oversized battery pack is fairly easy. Achieving more than 2000 cycles from any battery (LiFePO4 comes closest) has, so far, proven impossible. Most conventional cells last 500 cycles. Sandbagging and other techniques help mask the issues, but the fact remains, a very large battery pack is the way to get a lot of miles. It simply reduces the cycle count.

It's good to note that Tesla's ever improving range numbers are simply ever larger battery packs. This leads to longer battery life, lower depth of discharge (on a regular basis) and a lower cycle count.
Click to expand...

This is a really good point that most people don't realize. You'll get far more life out of a battery by keeping it within 30-80% charge vs using the full 0-100% range. Even for consumer electronics in general, I would love if manufacturers gave consumers the option to sacrifice run time in exchange for long term longevity, especially on electronics (phone, laptop) with no user serviceable battery. I think I've only seen one IBM/Lenovo laptop that had a feature to limit charge %, but that's no longer available.
 
Interior parts held up well for those high kilometres, the wiper arm issue is a manufacturing error at Tesla IMHO. I'd want to see the underside for the subframes etc.
 
JeffKeryk said:
As the early Model S cars age, it will be interesting to see what it takes to keep them alive, or even if it is worth doing at all.
I will be following this series.
2013 Model S
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hard not to look at this and not be reminded of this old nugget:

jalopnik.com

Craigslist Ads From The Future: Tesla Model 3

Recently, on the advice of someone online who claimed to be a doctor (I later found out it was a nine-year-old and a dog, working together) I attempted to microwave an elixir made from Propecia, Red Bull, and mildly used cat litter. Lacking cover to prevent boil-over, I used an old Hayes 300...
jalopnik.com jalopnik.com
 
JeffKeryk said:
As the early Model S cars age, it will be interesting to see what it takes to keep them alive, or even if it is worth doing at all.
I will be following this series.
2013 Model S

This is a very early car; I have to believe there will be a lotta work (and $$) involved. But compared to a new one...
If someone just needed a commuter and wanted a fun, really fast one, and wanted an EV, an older Model S might be considered.
Is there a used Model S in my future? Just maybe...
Click to expand...

And the details here are very interesting - overall the guy was impressed with the quality of the parts.



To be honest this Tesla gave Bjorn fewer issues than my 06 Lexus gave me.
 
From my friend's repair quote, it won't be the EV powertrain and battery that kills older Tesla, it would be the body repair cost in any accident. Most repair cost of body work is double of typical car, and long wait for parts and certified repair appointment time.

For cheap EV commute I would just buy a Volt instead, at least you know they are cheap and you have a gas backup for range if the battery ages. Let's say $8k for a 100k miles Volt and you drive it for another 50k miles. Your fuel cost saving would likely means you come out ahead if the $8k car depreciate to $4k like Nissan Leaf. You can in theory repeat that every 50k miles and get into a "newer" plug in and repeat until EV eco-system mature into something more predictable.
 
PandaBear said:
From my friend's repair quote, it won't be the EV powertrain and battery that kills older Tesla, it would be the body repair cost in any accident. Most repair cost of body work is double of typical car, and long wait for parts and certified repair appointment time.

For cheap EV commute I would just buy a Volt instead, at least you know they are cheap and you have a gas backup for range if the battery ages. Let's say $8k for a 100k miles Volt and you drive it for another 50k miles. Your fuel cost saving would likely means you come out ahead if the $8k car depreciate to $4k like Nissan Leaf. You can in theory repeat that every 50k miles and get into a "newer" plug in and repeat until EV eco-system mature into something more predictable.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Buying a Tesla is not the best financial decision. A Honda Civic is far cheaper all the way around.
Buying any expensive car is not the smartest financial decision.
 
PandaBear said:
From my friend's repair quote, it won't be the EV powertrain and battery that kills older Tesla, it would be the body repair cost in any accident. Most repair cost of body work is double of typical car, and long wait for parts and certified repair appointment time.

For cheap EV commute I would just buy a Volt instead, at least you know they are cheap and you have a gas backup for range if the battery ages. Let's say $8k for a 100k miles Volt and you drive it for another 50k miles. Your fuel cost saving would likely means you come out ahead if the $8k car depreciate to $4k like Nissan Leaf. You can in theory repeat that every 50k miles and get into a "newer" plug in and repeat until EV eco-system mature into something more predictable.
Click to expand...

TFLcar on YouTube experienced this when they had to get their Tesla Model 3 repaired after backing it into a garage door.
 
Tesla has already stated it won't support anything over 10 years old. That plus proprietary everything and good luck.
 
97prizm said:
Tesla has already stated it won't support anything over 10 years old. That plus proprietary everything and good luck.
Click to expand...
To be fair this is expected on the earlier models as most EV becomes unobtainium in parts department.

The value of old EV would likely be in the parts department, they can be taken aparts and salvaged for parts to other EVs in accidents or the pack either sold as a whole or taken apart as modules to repair old packs. Until model 3 and Leafs I don't think they are worth building old batteries into grid tied 2nd life batteries.
 
97prizm said:
Tesla has already stated it won't support anything over 10 years old. That plus proprietary everything and good luck.
Click to expand...
That is interesting to mull over. There's a law that says OEM's have to support vehicles up to 10 years, right? After that the OEM can quit supporting.

For older vehicles, more simple ones, the aftermarket seems to have stepped up and is supporting popular models. So that implies to me that it would come down to if the aftermarket can hack into anything which might be coded to the car. If there is a will there is a way. Especially if money can be made.
 
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