K129 and the Glomar Explorer

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Originally Posted By: fdcg27
The really intriguing part of this entire episode is how the CIA managed such a huge project with no leaks at all.


I think that the CIA got the OXcart flying without the Russian building a duplicate says that there were SOME secrets that could be maintained.
 
Fun fact, "We can neither confirm nor deny" is called the "Glomar Response" and invented as a legal response to FOIA requests for info on this.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I am aware of the Halibut and the role it might have played.
Another point of confusion to me is how the CIA managed to keep secret the construction of a ship designed and intended to raise a Soviet boat laying under three miles of water.
There was ample Soviet penetration of the CIA during this period, so how was a megabuck project and deployment kept secret?
Had the Soviets known what the ship was really about, they would have stopped it, even if it took as crude a method as running one of their large ships into it.
Oops, sorry!
The really intriguing part of this entire episode is how the CIA managed such a huge project with no leaks at all.


IIRC the vids linked above suggest the secret was NOT kept and that the operation was conducted under Soviet maritime suirveillance.

This was a diesel-electric sub and a pretty old design. Codes and targetng can be changed. Perhaps they figured that they didn't have that much to lose and didn't mind the CIA inflicting a costly failure on themselves.

Alternatively, perhaps they wanted to find out what happened and this was a no-cost-to-them way of finding out.

This does not necessarily imply that the CIA was compromised and would be incapable of keeping the details secret, though it may have been. To take an extreme possibility as an example, under prevailing nuclear stability doctrine, IF the rogue KGB op had any basis in fact and evidence for it was found, it would be in the US/Western/Global interest to give the Soviets the relevent information so they could do some house cleaning.

Similarly,IF the rogue KGB op had any basis in fact, the Soviets would probably already have circumstantial eveidence of it. It MIGHT be percieved as in their interest to share this information with the US, (ie it wasn't us) and, having done so, it weould be in their interest for the US to believe them by obtaining corroborative physical evidence.

These explanations are, not, of course, mutually exclusive.
 
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Originally Posted By: Rick in PA
Ducked, great story, gave me a good chuckle, my wife thought it was funny too.


Thought the story was great also...
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Rick in PA
Ducked, great story, gave me a good chuckle, my wife thought it was funny too.


Thought the story was great also...


I thought the ending was a bit of a let down.
 
No, the mental imagery at the end of either Thompson or Thomson becoming the crusty sea adventurer or frenetic underwater scientist, or the linen wrapped corpse settling leaf like to the manganese nodule strewn floor of the abyss while a soviet sub looks knowingly on over the lantern fish that closes in for a nibble... leave enough to the imagination to make it complete.
 
Originally Posted By: gman2304
The documentary I mentioned earlier is “ Project Azorian, the raising of K129”. It’s available to Amazon Prime members for free.

If anyone has streaming via Amazon Prime, do a search for K129 and it should pop up. Will have to watch this - thanks for the info. Photo turned due to posting from my phone.

 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I am aware of the Halibut and the role it might have played.
Another point of confusion to me is how the CIA managed to keep secret the construction of a ship designed and intended to raise a Soviet boat laying under three miles of water.
There was ample Soviet penetration of the CIA during this period, so how was a megabuck project and deployment kept secret?
Had the Soviets known what the ship was really about, they would have stopped it, even if it took as crude a method as running one of their large ships into it.
Oops, sorry!
The really intriguing part of this entire episode is how the CIA managed such a huge project with no leaks at all.


I think I've read somewhere the Trieste may have been involved too. That would give direct visual, which I'm not sure the Halibut could do.

What I find surprising about all this is (a) That this end, as presented, was thought to justify the means. I don't find that very plausible (see above), and (b) having acquired this capability at huge expense (there was also a Hughes "mining barge" which was fully submersible and is reported to have installed the lifting gear in the ship from underneath) they couldn't think of anything else to do with it, despite the existence of a huge offshore oil and gas industry.

The latter point perhaps relates to the fact that 12 people have been to the moon but only three to the bottom of the Challenger Deep, and one of them was a film director on a bit of an ego trip (ok, if I could afford it I might do the same.), A fellow student on a Masters course I did a while ago had a degree in oceanography and had never heard of the Trieste,

I've shown this vid in class a couple of times (the reader I use has an article on the disappearance of the Kaiko romotely controlled Japanese submersibel) but its a bit long and students are entirely uninterested. Straight into the smartphones. Yellow Submarine works better.



Still, maybe its just as well, If we'd been down there much we'd probably just have ****** it up.
 
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