Been reading a bit here and IMHO see alot of problems to be honest. First issue is that cleaning a K+N is usually the last thing you want to do, they work better slightly dirty, thats a proven fact.
Also with all the talk about paper filters, just how good are the paper filters after they get wet a few times? Remember the environment that these things have to work in, I don't see anyone bringing that up.
Anyway - here is my K+N story and Mobil 1 story, and I used to be an engine machinist, so this is coming from that perspective as well. No oil analysis here, true engine measurements after 12 years and 225,000 miles with a bore guage.
My mother bought a 92 Cougar with the V6 new in 1992. I immediately installed a K+N for the stock air box, and used Mobil 1 and Fram oil filters almost its whole life, about 5K between oil changes. Last year she hit the 225,000 mark and the passenger head gasket finally went - a record in its own right for this style V6 Ford but anyway, thats another story.
I pulled the heads, decked them 0.005" and they are perfect. Valve guides still within spec and tight, just needed a clean up on the exhaust seats - I have my own Neways as I still do this on the side. Didn't even need to dress the valve faces, lapped them lightly and the seal was perfect.
Looking at the block since the heads were off, noticed zero ridge visually, and actually 80% of the cross hatch is still in the cylinder walls. Setup my bore gauge to read the taper, less than 0.001" on the worst bore.
The car uses about 1/4 of a quart of oil between 5K changes currently. The inside of the engine is near spotless other than discoloration from 225,000 miles of use. Zero sludge, very slight varnish coloration here and there is it.
The K+N was deep cleaned once at about 100,000. Otherwise it was never cleaned other than bouncing it against something to knock the large chunks of debris off, this I learned from the dirt track guys. Washing these things out most times causes more harm than good I was taught. Considering this engine went over 200,000 miles and the actual bore measurement is within 0.001" of stock, I would dare say that the K+N the way it was used here does not cause ANY engine wear in and of itself. I do have the opinion that these things once installed need to be left alone other than a once in awhile knock to dislodge whatever will fall off. Basically leave the impregnated oil alone.
I didn't know better about the Fram oil filters at the time, I do use the Purolator Pure One now, but I have to admit that the Fram didn't cause any problems here either.
The car still gets about the same mileage as before, but the rest of the car is starting to fall apart, stuff like the interior, power windows, etc.
My current ride is a 97 Dakota with 155,000 miles and the same thing as above, though I have not pulled it apart. The K+N is black colored from the dirt as it has NEVER been deep cleaned, the truck uses 1/4 of a quart at the 6K mark, the oil is changed around 10K now, and the power and gas mileage are the same as new, and this thing was abused a bit with towing and the like. I don't know what the current bore wear is exactly, and I don't see a need to pull it apart anytime soon if you know what I mean.
So those are my findings. I think most of us (me included) just have to fiddle with things too much, and with K+N air filters, and synthetic oil, they are both so far advanced, that leaving them alone is usually better. The recent SAE paper on increased engine wear with 3K oil changes come to mind, I have not read the paper but in my opinion there is the same issue as the K+N or any media filter for that matter, you need some dirt to plug the larger holes, then the filter itself as a whole becomes more effective. This would infer that there is really a sweet spot for these to be most effective, and it is not when the filter is new......
Another trick I learned only recently is to install a remote mount oil filter inline with the PCV valve and the intake manifold. The engine while at idle and cruise actually gets most of its air from the PCV, not from the air filter directly. My 440 in my hotrod sucks so much oil through the PCV at high RPM this was the only solution to keep oil out of the intake. It works awesome on street stuff too, you just use the same oil filter as what the car uses, and when you change the oil, you then use this filter for the oil and install the new oil filter for the PCV, no waste, no fuss.
After reading through here IMHO alot of you are really into your oil stuff, a bit too much for me
, but it proved that the same 10W30 Mobil One I started using 15 years ago is still the best to use today for most street stuff, and I thank you
But this talk of K+N causing engine wear, I did not see it myself, and that was found with the best test of all, a Mitutoyo (SP?) bore gauge in the bore after enough street miles over 12 years for the rest of the car to fall apart first.
I know some will read this and say BS, that is the way of the internet, to each his own. But at least ask yourself before you bash K+N and the like, have you had a chance to get inside an engine run the same way for so long to effectively rule out all the other variables that happen from one oil analysis to the next? And just what are you trying to achieve in the end anyway?
IMHO - intall a K+N, and leave it alone, use Mobil One with a good filter, keep the anitfreeze clean and fresh, and you won't have any problems related to these items whatsoever, and that is about the best you can expect anyway.
Let the flames and critics begin
Also with all the talk about paper filters, just how good are the paper filters after they get wet a few times? Remember the environment that these things have to work in, I don't see anyone bringing that up.
Anyway - here is my K+N story and Mobil 1 story, and I used to be an engine machinist, so this is coming from that perspective as well. No oil analysis here, true engine measurements after 12 years and 225,000 miles with a bore guage.
My mother bought a 92 Cougar with the V6 new in 1992. I immediately installed a K+N for the stock air box, and used Mobil 1 and Fram oil filters almost its whole life, about 5K between oil changes. Last year she hit the 225,000 mark and the passenger head gasket finally went - a record in its own right for this style V6 Ford but anyway, thats another story.
I pulled the heads, decked them 0.005" and they are perfect. Valve guides still within spec and tight, just needed a clean up on the exhaust seats - I have my own Neways as I still do this on the side. Didn't even need to dress the valve faces, lapped them lightly and the seal was perfect.
Looking at the block since the heads were off, noticed zero ridge visually, and actually 80% of the cross hatch is still in the cylinder walls. Setup my bore gauge to read the taper, less than 0.001" on the worst bore.
The car uses about 1/4 of a quart of oil between 5K changes currently. The inside of the engine is near spotless other than discoloration from 225,000 miles of use. Zero sludge, very slight varnish coloration here and there is it.
The K+N was deep cleaned once at about 100,000. Otherwise it was never cleaned other than bouncing it against something to knock the large chunks of debris off, this I learned from the dirt track guys. Washing these things out most times causes more harm than good I was taught. Considering this engine went over 200,000 miles and the actual bore measurement is within 0.001" of stock, I would dare say that the K+N the way it was used here does not cause ANY engine wear in and of itself. I do have the opinion that these things once installed need to be left alone other than a once in awhile knock to dislodge whatever will fall off. Basically leave the impregnated oil alone.
I didn't know better about the Fram oil filters at the time, I do use the Purolator Pure One now, but I have to admit that the Fram didn't cause any problems here either.
The car still gets about the same mileage as before, but the rest of the car is starting to fall apart, stuff like the interior, power windows, etc.
My current ride is a 97 Dakota with 155,000 miles and the same thing as above, though I have not pulled it apart. The K+N is black colored from the dirt as it has NEVER been deep cleaned, the truck uses 1/4 of a quart at the 6K mark, the oil is changed around 10K now, and the power and gas mileage are the same as new, and this thing was abused a bit with towing and the like. I don't know what the current bore wear is exactly, and I don't see a need to pull it apart anytime soon if you know what I mean.
So those are my findings. I think most of us (me included) just have to fiddle with things too much, and with K+N air filters, and synthetic oil, they are both so far advanced, that leaving them alone is usually better. The recent SAE paper on increased engine wear with 3K oil changes come to mind, I have not read the paper but in my opinion there is the same issue as the K+N or any media filter for that matter, you need some dirt to plug the larger holes, then the filter itself as a whole becomes more effective. This would infer that there is really a sweet spot for these to be most effective, and it is not when the filter is new......
Another trick I learned only recently is to install a remote mount oil filter inline with the PCV valve and the intake manifold. The engine while at idle and cruise actually gets most of its air from the PCV, not from the air filter directly. My 440 in my hotrod sucks so much oil through the PCV at high RPM this was the only solution to keep oil out of the intake. It works awesome on street stuff too, you just use the same oil filter as what the car uses, and when you change the oil, you then use this filter for the oil and install the new oil filter for the PCV, no waste, no fuss.
After reading through here IMHO alot of you are really into your oil stuff, a bit too much for me
But this talk of K+N causing engine wear, I did not see it myself, and that was found with the best test of all, a Mitutoyo (SP?) bore gauge in the bore after enough street miles over 12 years for the rest of the car to fall apart first.
I know some will read this and say BS, that is the way of the internet, to each his own. But at least ask yourself before you bash K+N and the like, have you had a chance to get inside an engine run the same way for so long to effectively rule out all the other variables that happen from one oil analysis to the next? And just what are you trying to achieve in the end anyway?
IMHO - intall a K+N, and leave it alone, use Mobil One with a good filter, keep the anitfreeze clean and fresh, and you won't have any problems related to these items whatsoever, and that is about the best you can expect anyway.
Let the flames and critics begin
