just a thought...

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don't make this political. I have just been thinking recently that the indigenous peoples of the new world had it right. and the european man, well, wrong. i wish i could be connected to the land and be part of it rather than be on it. i wish people wouldn't think that they could "own" land or stuff or wahtever. OK. just a thought.
 
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crinkles, had many similar thoughts over the years. This growth without end is clearly, by its own words, unsustainable...it's a finite world, with finite resources, and a single, consistent energy input. You cannot grow forever. The locals had a better appreciation of the land (after they modified it), and had a sustainable existence...albeit without TVs and luxuries Some places have people with hectare block, producing what they can, and bartering with neighbours who make other stuff. When does sustainable start to extend to "my stuff is worth more than your stuff ?"
 
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I know where you are coming from. I wish the rich people would share more............. Sad thing is even the indigenous people now probably want to own like the European man. Don't worry it will be made political by someone............
 

crinkles

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i watched a show about the bush tonight, and after that they had flyovers of the city... it looked like an abomination! my wife says she has always felt that way about cities... it's funny what people can get used to without realising it.
 
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Would be nice to live a simpler, less stressed life where relationships were more important than work, greed and things that modern society has brought upon us.
 
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 Originally Posted By: ZZman
Would be nice to live a simpler, less stressed life where relationships were more important than work, greed and things that modern society has brought upon us.
I'll add "perpetual envy" to your list
 
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 Originally Posted By: ZZman
Would be nice to live a simpler, less stressed life where relationships were more important than work, greed and things that modern society has brought upon us.
This response is a perfect segue into what I was going to say. The grass is always greener on the other side, as they say. When we look at them, we see a harmonious life without cell phones, stupid bosses and clients, and greedy people with a childish sense of entitlement. Those are the sources of stress WE know, so we presume that existence is less stressful because without them. On the other hand, we don't notice their lack of health care, the greater and constant threats to life and limb, and the lack of any but the most essential understanding of how the world works. Now, do we have a thing or two to learn from them? That is another story. I'm pretty sure the answer is a very emphatic "yes".
 
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 Quote:
On the other hand, we don't notice their lack of health care, the greater and constant threats to life and limb, and the lack of any but the most essential understanding of how the world works.
You're viewing it from the top end of achievement ..which can surely be brief in the passage of time. They weren't unintelligent, they just lacked technology There was nothing wrong with integrating with the environment. If the buffalo didn't show up (which they didn't due to some odd intrusion) ..you starved to death. Some European disease shows up ..you died. If Spanish explorers show up on horses and you think they're gods, they give your women syphilis Technology has never solved anything. It exchanges problems.
 
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 Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
 Quote:
On the other hand, we don't notice their lack of health care, the greater and constant threats to life and limb, and the lack of any but the most essential understanding of how the world works.
You're viewing it from the top end of achievement ..which can surely be brief in the passage of time. They weren't unintelligent, they just lacked technology There was nothing wrong with integrating with the environment. If the buffalo didn't show up (which they didn't due to some odd intrusion) ..you starved to death. Some European disease shows up ..you died. If Spanish explorers show up on horses and you think they're gods, they give your women syphilis Technology has never solved anything. It exchanges problems.
That is the way it is and has always been and will always be. The natives are the same way, study up!
 
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Native populations (those that tend to be admired for their limits) tended to be in isolation. There are still native populations that do no more than they have to to exist and have no desire to advance.
 
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 Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Native populations (those that tend to be admired for their limits) tended to be in isolation. There are still native populations that do no more than they have to to exist and have no desire to advance.
Just like our welfare populations?
 
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 Originally Posted By: oilboy123
I know where you are coming from. I wish the rich people would share more............. Sad thing is even the indigenous people now probably want to own like the European man. Don't worry it will be made political by someone............
See how life is in parts of Africa .
 
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 Originally Posted By: Steve S
We all live in houses not huts drive cars use electricity to play on computers etc. Karl Marx had a great idea as well.
You're confusing happiness with technology. Technology has allowed us specialization. It has enhanced our lives and provided many comforts. It doesn't mean that it's a sustainable existence. What's our best expectation? One would hope for Star Trek. Right now, I think the most optimistic person would see Bladerunner. Meanwhile, if those native populations were left alone, without outside cultural influences, they would probably still be existing in a similar state by the time we reach either future (if we do make it that far).
 
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Gary I agree but the limit would be how much is needed or wanted . When are we as individuals happy for example a nice 1,500 sfh house or a 2,700 sfh or a 5,000 sfh. wants vs needs.
 
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Well, we've been conditioned and compelled to want more. While this is a productive attribute, it's not always beneficial depending on how you're measuring things. I mean, wouldn't you be happy tending your mushroom farm in the remote regions of Tatooine ..or if you're the 'gator or catfish noddling type ..Dagobah ????
 

JHZR2

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Greed, envy, immorality, enslavement and depriving others of their rights has been human nature forever. None of it is an invention of the 20th century. It is only that we reached critical mass to gain enlightenment fast enough to do some neat stuff and enable us to really produce and consume. I highly doubt that any group was truly happier, smarter or anything but perhaps being different in terms of sustainability.
 
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 Originally Posted By: crinkles
don't make this political. I have just been thinking recently that the indigenous peoples of the new world had it right. and the european man, well, wrong. i wish i could be connected to the land and be part of it rather than be on it. i wish people wouldn't think that they could "own" land or stuff or wahtever. OK. just a thought.
I think Europeans were tied to the land. Ever hear of the Druids and the Celts?
 
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