It’s official: America is now No. 2

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So now we need to lower standards. Make it ok to live in cardboard shacks and lose weight by eating a bowl of rice twice a day.
I've been pointing out how bad NAFTA and other trade deals are for years. How can we compete with slave wages and no regulations. We can't.
 
So what's the solution? Actually what's the problem?

As I see it, either we all go and work in manufacturing for Chinese wages or we start buying non Chinese goods and make do with the less that we can buy as a result.

No thanks. You're all free to buy non Chinese made goods and reduce the money available to you in retirement, and others are free not to care about. At the end of the day, how you spend your money only affects which billionaire gets your money and it may as well be a Chinese billionaire than an American billionaire.

Btw, the comparison is done using PPP for the entire country. They are not bigger than us ........... yet. And even when they are, it will be a while longer until they are equal on a per capita basis.

By which time most of us will be dead. You know, the only real answer we have to this is (skilled) immigration.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
We've enabled this. Congrats all.

+1
Every time you, me, Overkill and a few others complain about horror freight, Chinese junk, Walmart, etc we get hit will "its a global economy get use to it" and such tripe.

This mentality is hammering the USA into second world status at a rapid pace. No one want to control this Chinese take over of the economy. We have given them not only our money but our jobs.
Now McDonalds and other service workers complain because they cant support families on their pay check.
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Now its come full circle, we cant afford our own products and many people are almost forced to buy their junk because its all they can afford.

Time to import tax Chinese goods into oblivion IMHO. What do we get instead, POTUS running around China in a friggin coolie suit.



I couldn't agree more.

I buy made in America red wing boots,in fact all of my footwear is red wing,from shoes to work boots and my slip ons,all made in America.
My nailers are hitachi,so made in Japan,my compressors are Honda engines and when the pumps finally die we get them re-ringed locally.
I will admit I've got chonda generators. I'd love to buy Hondas but quadruple the price just isn't do-able.
My sockets and wrenches are made in America. I can't afford new snap on so I cruise pawn shops for used pieces.
I ride a harley,so it's at least assembled in America(how sad is that. An American icon like harley reduced to assembled status).
So even though America is filled with people who have this to say about us
Originally Posted By: Gabe
Still better than Canada
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And have like
Y never seen anything except what the TV shows them I still believe in supporting American families even though it costs me more up front.
The saddest part about this is industry. America has sold almost all its industry overseas because as a business it costs less to produce goods.
So even if as a nation they wanted to its now fiscally impossible to regain a foothold as far as manufacturing is concerned.
Industry is what built America. People worked skilled positions,foundries were full steam ahead,machinists,skilled labour,they all had a place and position,work was everywhere.
So now what. What does America do now that the industrial sector has been neutered and auctioned.
And these retard environmentalists putting the brakes on fracking is another nail in the coffin. That "dumbumentary" gas land,which has been proven to be fabrications and misdirections has people,who just believed what they saw instead of actually researching themselves,screaming stop drilling,is just making it worse for the working class.
That film shows a homeowner lighting his tap water on fire. What the movie doesn't tell you is that same homeowner has had methane coming from his taps since he moved into his house,and it's not flammable due to the chemicals used in fracking,it's flammable due to the natural occurring methane in his well.
Now these people,uneducated,want to ban fracking altogether. Which is absolute nonsense.
Here's a cheap,easily acquired form of energy that can ease the strain on the American family,ease the strain on America as a whole as far as energy is concerned. It puts Americans to work. It helps the environment because it lessens the need for coal fired electricity,but because these uninformed environmentalists only see what's right in front of them and not the big picture(less coal burned for electricity)they hurt the entire nation.
Kinda like when the common man decided that cheaper was better,and in making that decision shut down the American industrial domination.
Being so shortsighted has already crippled the nation as far as industry is concerned,and it's happening again with this fracking ban.
There are simple solutions that can strengthen the American core yet uniformed,uneducated,biased opinions and fear mongering wins the day,and adds another piece of straw to an already overloaded camel.
The only industry America has left is prisons and the military.
But the typical American has what they wanted. Cheaper goods. Thank heavens,because when the only work to be had is Walmart and McDonald's the typical paycheque can't afford much else.
Looking back if someone had said" sure we can get stuff cheaper overseas but that will put Americans out of work,big time,and will,in time,cripple the nation as a whole" would you still buy those Chinese brake pads,or those pants etc,etc.
I am cheap bí freely admit it. But it's because I'm cheap that I look for value in the dollar spent.
For example. Work boots. My red wings cost 350 bucks a pair locally. Or I can buy an 80 dollar pair from Walmart.
My 350 dollar redwings last at least 8 years of working everyday. The 80 dollar pair lasts a year,a very uncomfortable,wet,stinky,foot fungus year.
So my cost per year is less than half when buying redwings,even though the cost up front is more,over time that cost keeps going down.
Some things,like my iPhone,iPad and my apple stuff is of course made in China. And I'll just have to accept that fact because if it wasn't for Apple I wouldn't even know how to email,call it a necessary evil,but where possible I try to spend my money supporting either the local economy,or the continental one
 
My tools, our family cars and about 70% of my fishing gear is American made. I try to purchase Made in USA whenever it is feasible.
 
Originally Posted By: ron17571
So now we need to lower standards. Make it ok to live in cardboard shacks and lose weight by eating a bowl of rice twice a day.
I've been pointing out how bad NAFTA and other trade deals are for years. How can we compete with slave wages and no regulations. We can't.




Get real. Nafta isn't the problem. Our wages here are comparable,or higher than the American equivalent job so how does any type of free trade agreement hurt American jobs.
It doesn't. It's just more finger pointing trying to sluff blame when the only blame to be had is with those who supported overseas companies by buying overseas goods which killed American manufacturing.
It's just that simple.
If anything you should be thanking Canada. You get oil from us and we don't turn around and take that money and buy munitions to kill your sons and daughters with.
We supply water to many big cities,since you've polluted your watersheds to the point it'll take a thousand years to get back to normal.
We have a mutual border that you don't have to spend billions on keeping us out,since we are more than happy over here on our side of the fence.
I suggest pointing your finger at those who put you in the position your in now.
I'm glad it gets cold up here. Mexicans and Arabs hate the cold,so the ones that are here are all huddled together in Brampton.
Yep. So trash Canada all you want. I'll laugh while I'm fishing.
See up here we can actually eat the fish we catch.
And we have this stuff called wildlife. We hunt deer,bear,moose,elk,all kinds of beast,and not just for sport,we can eat em too.
Ignorance isnt just shining upon the uneducated and uninformed,however they can't help it since no one taught them.
Ignorance by choice is something that can't be fixed.
 
This will please so many of a certain sector of American ilk. You know... the ones who think being exceptional is bad.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
As for the folks complaining about Chinese goods, where were your internet surfing devices made?

My guess is China, but country of origin doesn't matter because you "need" that device!
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Sorry my Panasonic Toughbook CF19 is made in Japan as is my Fujitsu. Both come from a first world country. Camera German and a Made in Japan Nikon and an old Nikkormat.
All my appliances are German as is my Metz TV, the stereo is Bang & Olufsen.

Looking around my house and garage i don't find anything Chicom. My sneakers are made in USA and shoes made in England by John Lobb. Clothing is USA or European, suits by Brioni.
Watches, Swiss and German. I practice what i preach, i even tossed the iphone and went back to my Finnish made Nokia.

I spent 2K for an American made Stainless steel cage for the parrots instead of a $600 Chinese one complete with poisonous paint.
I refuse to support the free worlds number 1 enemy with my money.


Flat out what needs to be done. I myself have been trying to do much less china myself, and even try to support my local economy more.

And that, I simply live with less than I need. Don't even need all the junk out there...as I am pushing to get what I want, even if it means giving up buying other stuff (almost all I could do without anyways) It's almost kinda going back to the depression era "attitude"....pretty much being buying what you need plus a few "treats".

Great, I'm starting to sound like my grandpa....
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Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
As long as America has the No. 1 currency in the world, we're alright.


That will change....very soon!
 
Originally Posted By: ron17571
So now we need to lower standards. Make it ok to live in cardboard shacks and lose weight by eating a bowl of rice twice a day.
I've been pointing out how bad NAFTA and other trade deals are for years. How can we compete with slave wages and no regulations. We can't.



Blame wall street then. It's all about the money...


Or in China's case, money and power.....
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Forget about China.. What about imported cars? Plenty of quality cars to be had here, yet people feel they need xxxxxx. Just browse signatures here. We can see who really believes what they're preaching.

Can we all say double standards?
imported cars, like the Ford Fusion, made in Mexico by people who want to annex 2/3 of this nation for their own.
 
Abusive greedy corporations followed by greedy union leaders followed by decades long litigation with greedy lawyers followed by choking regulation followed by lobbying followed by de-regulation followed by more lobbying and constant extremes in pendulam shifts etc... caused this. We have no business blaming anyone but ourselves. While all this fluff went on, China happened. We will continue reaping because it is too late for America to compete with countries who can produce at a fraction the cost. Our economies are so inundated by Chinese goods that it will be difficult not to contribute to their economy.
 
Wealth has always happened because we could organise more effort than a single human body was able to muster...how do you get from subsistence to art, science, and culture ?

Beasts of burden could do many humans worth of effort for a bit of inedible straw, slaves were the epitome, and delegation...come the industrial revolution, and we employed our greatest delegation/slave, fossil fuel...and our "productivity' soared...and we all expected that we would ALL climb the ladder which was previously akin to a Ponzi scheme.

More recently, and on BITOG, people have laughed at China for accepting "worthless pieces of paper" for the results of their labour...they make and send stuff, and "we" give them paper, that some here also suggested should be defaulted upon.

However, all of those people, producing their trinkets, and collecting their pieces of worthless paper are looking at the top of the Ponzi scheme, and aspiring to be the next layer up.

They all want an improved standard of living, and who can deny them that aspiration ?

Problem is that pyramid schemes need to have more entry levels at the base than each layer atop them. With our exponential growth in consumption, we have run out of serfs at the bottom, and being a finite globe...there's not enough "stuff" to make everyone an American.

You (we, I include Aus as well) will be brought down, as these countries drag themselves up. We facilitate them, as we have always wanted progression based on utilising lower cost labour.

The really sad part is that you can't (IMO) run a service based economy...hairdressers, baristas and doctors need some form of production based income to feed into their moneygoround.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
We've enabled this. Congrats all.


Exactly, it's no surprise to me. It's a disappointment, a major disappointment. My bet is the gap will widen even more in the next decade.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow

The really sad part is that you can't (IMO) run a service based economy...hairdressers, baristas and doctors need some form of production based income to feed into their moneygoround.


Unfortunately there is no convincing some people of that fact.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Wealth has always happened because we could organise more effort than a single human body was able to muster...how do you get from subsistence to art, science, and culture ?

Beasts of burden could do many humans worth of effort for a bit of inedible straw, slaves were the epitome, and delegation...come the industrial revolution, and we employed our greatest delegation/slave, fossil fuel...and our "productivity' soared...and we all expected that we would ALL climb the ladder which was previously akin to a Ponzi scheme.

More recently, and on BITOG, people have laughed at China for accepting "worthless pieces of paper" for the results of their labour...they make and send stuff, and "we" give them paper, that some here also suggested should be defaulted upon.

However, all of those people, producing their trinkets, and collecting their pieces of worthless paper are looking at the top of the Ponzi scheme, and aspiring to be the next layer up.

They all want an improved standard of living, and who can deny them that aspiration ?

Problem is that pyramid schemes need to have more entry levels at the base than each layer atop them. With our exponential growth in consumption, we have run out of serfs at the bottom, and being a finite globe...there's not enough "stuff" to make everyone an American.

You (we, I include Aus as well) will be brought down, as these countries drag themselves up. We facilitate them, as we have always wanted progression based on utilising lower cost labour.

The really sad part is that you can't (IMO) run a service based economy...hairdressers, baristas and doctors need some form of production based income to feed into their moneygoround.


I disagree. It's not about services vs manufacturing. It's all about knowledge and creating value and innovating.

In the global economy, the people who succeed can come from any country and work with anyone from any other country. If they participate in industries that are innovating, whether directly or indirectly, they will benefit. The countries that will succeed are those that provide the environment for that to happen. That is what Singapore is doing.

The worst thing one can advocate is to want to get manufacturing back. Funnily enough, that's what western European socialists have always said. They missed the understanding that innovation is the driver of wealth. That's why certain parts of America keep on doing well and that's why successive waves of immigration are important to the country. The areas that become nostalgic about their past industries are doomed because they're ignoring reality.
 
This, Chinese economic boom has an expiration date on it.
People in China aren't happy, and do not live well. We all know how dictatorship ended in other parts of the world.
 
At what point in time did we become number one? Was it the end of World War II or before.

I would say the seeds of China's hatred toward the west started long before Mao and even decades before we became number one. Consider the Boxer Rebellion of 1900 and the root cause behind it. China would have done this generations ago except for their antiquated monarchy, then a series of War Lords, the invasion by Japan and World War II, then of course Mao.

Oddly enough, many great basic inventions have come from the Chinese, but their world view hindered them from utilizing them like we did in the west. What has happened, (in my opinion) is that the Chinese, while hating the west has adopted a western world view and as Shannow has pointed out, now joined the struggle to "get to the top."
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
As for the folks complaining about Chinese goods, where were your internet surfing devices made?

My guess is China, but country of origin doesn't matter because you "need" that device!
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I looked at about 25 different laptops...every one of them was made in China. Sometimes, there just isn't any choice.

My phone is one of the few NOT made in China.
 
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