Is this (or any) Multifleet Oil an HDEO?

[Alfa_Hadera]

Hi All,

I want to try and use HDEO for my Alfa Romeo Twin Spark 2.0 Engine. This engine requires by spec 10W60 Fully Synthetic for sporty driving or 10W40 Semi for regular driving conditions.

It drinks any by the Liter per 1000 Km which is bordering on spec... I have tried numerous types ranging from PAO Esters like Redline 10W60, through various Group III 5W40's and currently running Rehinol 10W40 Semi.

The reason is because I see many threads that praise the cleaning abilities of HDEO and I got a suggestion to try it some time ago. The specific oil I am looking at - is also very very cheap (which will help my pocket with her drinking habit).

The oil in question is Delkol 15W40 Multi Fleet. A local brew that is 100% Mineral.

Answers the specs of:

ACEA A3/B3/B4/E3/E5/E7
SAE 15W40
MB 229.1 / 228.3
CATERPILLAR ECF-1
API CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/CF/SL
VOLVO VDS 2/VDS 3
CUMMINS CES 20076/20077/20078
MTU Type 2
VW 505
Renault RLD
EURO 3/EURO 4
MAN 3275/ALLISON C-4
MACK EO-M +/EO-N-+

And has the following properties:

Weight @150 - 0.89 Gram/Mililiter
Kinematic Viscosity @40 Degrees - 120 cSt
Kinematic Viscosity @100 Degrees - 15.0 cSt
Viscosity Index - 130
Flashpoint - 210 Degrees Celsius
Pour Point - -12 Degrees Celsius
TBN - 10.0



My basic questions are as follows:

1. Is any multi-fleet (that conforms to the above specs) considered an HDEO?
2. Is there any harm using the above oil as per spec?
3. Should I be looking at Fully Synthetic options like Delvac?

Many thanks in advance!


Tuval

 

[m37charlie]

That certainly is an HDEO. It meets API CI4, ACEA E7 and MB 228.3
That said, I would follow your mfgs recommendation and not just use (mineral) HDEO because someone says it is "better". Is there a specific spec for your engine or does it just require ACEA A3/B3/B4? If the latter is true then the Delkol will be OK. You live in a fairly warm climate and I doubt the slight increase in viscosity of 15W40 vs 10W40 will do any harm.
If you race I would use the 10W60, however.
Hope to visit Israel eventually with my Unimog camper.

Charlie

 

[Alfa_Hadera]

Charlie - I bet your Unimog can cross the ocean and the Sahara on the way here... It should be an amazing trip!

I checked up again and the original spec calls for the following:

For Regular Driving -
Synthetic-based engine oils, grade SAE 10W-40
that pass ACEA A3 and API SL specifications.
FIAT 9.55535-G2 qualification

For Spirited Driving -
Synthetic-based engine oil, grade SAE 10W-60.
FIAT 9.55535-H3 qualification

Now, I don't race her. Even if I do push at the occasional sprint, I do stay at least 1,000 RPM from the Red Line (which is at 7,000 RPM).

So, should there really be a difference if I use 100% Dino instead of a Semi? I mean:

She drinks around a 3 liters a month at my current oil consumption and mileage, hence - much of the oil is burned off - and refreshed...

Should the dino not be ok for at least 6K Mile OCI?

 

[m37charlie]

The only oils that meet the Fiat spec are synthetic based PCMOs like for instance Mobil 1 0W40. Undoubtedly there are 5W40s and 10W40s that meet the Fiat spec.
I don't think anything bad will happen, though, if you use the Delkol at a 6000mi (10K km) change interval.

Charlie

 

[Alfa_Hadera]

The Lubrizol Relative Performance Tool is great but it does not list any FIAT spec. The only info I could find on the web I got from http://www.oilspecifications.org/fiat.php and this says that the spec of Fiat 9.55535-G2 is "Qualification for gasoline engine lubricants with standard characteristics.".

So I suppose with the Delkol I should be covered for standard non-spirited driving...

And yet - is the 100% dino content a concern over semi-synthetic? You see - every oil I put in goes black within 1,000 Miles. I guess this is due to high blow-by and the high BMEP value of this engine. This leads me to prefer "Cleaning" oils - but am I making a mistake and expecting too much from a dino - even an HDEO?

Aside from an oil analysis - how can I know if the oil is coking/developing varnish or sludge - or used up its additive package - before it happens?

 

[ac_tc]

I think its a good idea, dont bother if its syn or dino.
Its designed to work in turbo diesels under heavy and constant loads.
HDEO´s have to pass more stringent tests tha pcmo so
i say use it ( i use hdeo in everything..)

 

[m37charlie]

Originally Posted By: ac_tc

HDEO´s have to pass more stringent tests tha pcmo so
i say use it ( i use hdeo in everything..)


I don't think this is particularly important in Alfa Hadera's case, but note that Delkol HDEO only meets MB229.1 whereas there are many PCMOs including my favorite Mobil 1 0W40 which meet MB229.5.
Currently some PCMOs designed for petrol motors have a higher TBN (more detergency) than HDEOs meeting ACEA E6 or E9, due to 1.0% ash limits in the latter. As an example M1 0W40 has a TBN of 11.8.
The Delkol mentioned is not a stringent emission controlled lubricant.
My suggestion: if money is an object use the Delkol. If money is NO object use something like M1 0W40.

Charlie

 

[ac_tc]

This thing drinks oil at a 1% rate, most two strokes would live on that.
- Emissions cant be a subject here....
And Volvo vds3 is high enough for me..
Base tbn cant have any meaning either as he has replenished his oil once even before the oci....(tbn will remain high)

 

[supercity]

You can use the HDEO as it is A3 rated and that is all the Alfa really needs. 10w60 was only to reduce oil consuumption.

 

[Alfa_Hadera]

To update, I am now on my second gallon of the Delkol 15W40. Just to be sure I have enough protection, I added 1/2 bottle of Liqui Moly MoS2.

Consumption is lower but not significantly. Engine sounds fine. Fuel Consumption is worse - dropped by around 1.5 Km per Liter. One thing to note - Engine warms up in around half the time so I guess the 15 rating is very noticeable.

Next on my checklist is do another change in a month (I do some 1,500 Miles a month) and see if the oil darkens as quick as before (usually gets dark black in around 1,000 Miles after change).

 

[ac_tc]

you dont have to enhance hdeo with mos2.
Save your money.
Your fuel consumption change is big.. to big to blame on the oil.
Theres something else thats wrong or you have changed how you drive.

 

[Alfa_Hadera]

Thanks ac_tc,

I fear low film strength and reduced mixed/boundary layer protection, hence the mos2. So I have nothing to fear?

On the fuel consumption, I do WOT every day now and there is a correlation. But normal and easy driving is a bit difficult with the engine note... I checked the MAF, air filter and themostat. Everything seems fine. I guess this just might be the WOTs and oil.


About the reason for selecting an HDEO :

the smoke on WOT after coasting/deccelerating in gear with engine braking lead me to the conclusion that this is a combination of the low tension rings, high clearance and high BMEP that manifest in the high blow-by and consumption. On the other hand, could be simply stuck rings - and this is why I am testing the HDEO.

I hope in a few OCIs I will know if the rings were stuck or that this a by-design factor that I will live with until a future rebuild.

 

[ac_tc]

I fear low film strength and reduced mixed/boundary layer protection, hence the mos2. So I have nothing to fear?

This is one of the things hdeo is good at. no fear