Is this chart still valid for todays oils?

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 - "Oil type Typically used in.... 5W-30 Cooler climates, like Sweden 10W-40 Temperate climates, like England 15W-50 Hot climates, like Italy, Spain, Egypt" Got it from a website talking about SJ being the current top grade. Must be very old.
 
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Are these weights typical for Volvo, Lancia, Ferrari, Mercedes and BMW? To me it looks like this chart recommends synthetic oil for the hot climate. Joe
 
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Gone
Here we go again: the old North America vs Rest-of-the-World viscosity debate. These recommendations seem extremely conservative to me when addressing the lightweight oils if they are synthetic (i.e. 5W-30 is good to a lot higher temperature than the charts show)...but then what does the R-o-t-W know about the protection of thicker oils that we maybe reject or ignore.
 
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The oil chart for my '96 Audi is basically the same. Thinner oils (5W-30 to 10W-40) are recommended for lower ambient temperatures, thicker oils (15W-20 to 20W-50/10W-60) for higher temperatures/long distance/high speed driving. However, when using a full synthetic oil, the weight doesn't matter, and it is recommened for all ambient temperatures regardless of its weight (5W-30 to 5W-40). And yes, this topic has opened a can of worms before... [Roll Eyes] PS: pscholte, In my Audi manual, 5W-30 is recommended for same temperature range. However, if it's a 5W-30 "Leichtlauföl" (oil with friction modifiers), then it works for ANY ambient temp/high speed driving. [ July 20, 2003, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: moribundman ]
 
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M'man, Thanks for the PS...I have been considering purchasing an Audi and wondered what their oil recommendations are.
 
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[Off Topic!] pscholte, I can recommend Audi, but there are few things to consider. An Audi will be very reliable and last a very long time, if you are meticulous with maintenance. Repairs can easily get costly, and after the warranty expires, you should either have an extended warranty, or you should be able to perform at least regular maintenance and some minor repairs yourself. Or a big wallet will do - dealer prices are exorbitant. [Wink] An Audi is fun to drive, and my '96 A4 is running better than ever at 126k miles without having become a rattle trap.
 
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I was going to say that this chart is actually a bit conservative. My BMW stops a 5-30 at 5C (and not 15C). I used to think the same way. But, I now agree with the charts too. Although there is some variation with synthetics, the viscosity illustrated holds true if you want a long-lasting and clean engine. I've said this before...for all you 5-30 users....there's always auto-rx later on....to clean up the garbage left by the "fuel-economy" oil. Just pray the damage isn't too late...in my case, I was using an A3 5-30 so hopefully, I'm a little safer. Or you could do the 3k oil change thing. That's what the jiffy lube places recommend anyway. Bet the guys that work there never saw this chart.
 
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Doctor, I searched but could not find any oil analyses reported by you for the oils that you recommend.
 
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Tx
I understand matching oil with cold temps and flow for startup. But aren't normal engine temps even in the winter once warmed up several hundred degrees and much hotter around rings etc. What is the temp swing of the engine block from say 60 degree day to a reading on a 100 degree day? I'm trying to understand how the 5w30 I'm running is only good for 14 degrees top(the coldest day of the year here where I live) but straight 30 is good to 86 degrees(which is a lot cooler than today here BTW). By this chart my VG30DE engine should be toast. Or should the 30,40,50 be determined by engine clearances?
 
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...another thought on the charts...I would not often want to start my engine at -15 degrees (first chart) or even 5 degrees (Volvo chart) with 15W in it and ESPECIALLY if I was running a turbo. Some of you may have experience using this weight oil at these kind of temps and without complication, but I am such a fanatic on wear at engine start/rapid oil flow that I would not be comfortable at all doing it. [ July 20, 2003, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: pscholte ]
 
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Pscholte, You would be amazed how much oil stays traped between the bearings especialy with a thick oil. You should also not have to much to worry about cold start if your AW additives have been taken up. I have to admit that I am not a big fan of 15W50 or 20W50 once temps fall bellow 32. Luckily with modern synthetics some of this can be delt with buy going one grade lighter(10W40) or with a wider multi vis spread like 5W40. Redline and Delvac 1 5W40 have the extreme cold crank problem licked while still provideing a decent film strength once warm! For what is worth I had a oil pressure guage wich read real time. I would time my oil pressure to see how long it too on start up to reach full pressure. The needle would begin to move imediately at start up no lag. It took 13 econds for 100 psi with 15W50 in the summer. It took 13 seconds to reach 100 psi with 10W30 in the winter. Seeing how you should allow oil pressure to come up before driveing the vechile the combination of traped oil and AW should do the job. COld start only happen twice a day for most people but the drive to and from work can last for hours. Once the oil warms up you had better have something in the engine will protect. [ July 20, 2003, 10:21 PM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]
 
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Have you ever redlined that motor for an hour? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ That does put a different perspective on it.
 
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Gone
JB, I am probably overly focused on startup wear...got that way from all the stuff that came out of Detroit when 5W30 oils were introduced and justified. You make good points. Part of me would like to run 20W60, the other part says, "Whoa, you're better off with a 0W40!!!"
 
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Fairfield County, CT
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. T: I was going to say that this chart is actually a bit conservative. My BMW stops a 5-30 at 5C (and not 15C). I used to think the same way. But, I now agree with the charts too. Although there is some variation with synthetics, the viscosity illustrated holds true if you want a long-lasting and clean engine. I've said this before...for all you 5-30 users....there's always auto-rx later on....to clean up the garbage left by the "fuel-economy" oil.
I'd say it really depends on the year and make of the engine. Most newer BMWs spec Group III 5W-30 year round. A friend's '01 Audi A4 calls for 0W-30, 5W-30, or 5W-40 year round. The Corvette specs M1 5W-30 and I've never heard of those things sludging up. I've run M1 5W-30 in various Hondas and even my old turbo SAAB, and those engines stayed clean. I lived in southeast Asia for several years and the Honda dealers specify Shell Helix 20W-50 year round for Civics. That oil is so thick that those poor little 1.6L engines stuggle just to maintain idle speed--the gearshift shakes like mad! When I saw that, I dumped the 20W-50 and replaced it with M1 5W-30. I was confident that M1 5W-30 could handle the high heat (35'C), humidity, and massive traffic jams... and I was right. The engine performed MUCH better with the proper 5W-30 weight and no longer shook at idle. Like night and day... the engine finally loved to rev, just like a good Honda should. I never had a consumption issue, nor an engine cleanliness problem. To this day that car runs great. It's almost 10 years old now, A/C running day in, day out, and massive traffic ALWAYS. 10,000 km oil change interval. Camry/Sienna V6 sludge-monsters excepted, I don't think you'll ever have a cleanliness problem running Mobil 1, even with lighter weights such as 5W-30. So I wouldn't be so quick to condemn every 5W-30 for every engine out there... Thicker weights like 15W-40 and 20W-50 are not appropriate for all engines, even in hot weather. Jason
 
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Largo, FL
Can't answer for Lancia, Ferrari, Mercedes or BMW, but here is a Volvo viscosity chart from the 1985 model year:  - As far as I'm concerned, it's still valid, because the car in question is still running, although it's just a pup with only 219K miles on it. 10W-30 Quaker State high mileage in there now, but I have to pull a trailer with it next month, so it will get some Valvoline Premium Blue 15W-40 for that trip.
 
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Fairfield County, CT
moribundman, that's very interesting! It's a bit confusing that 5W-30 appears in both columns A and B. It says "A" is for "energy conserving oils" and "B" is for multi-grade! All those oils are multi-grade, and virtually all name brand 5W-30s (dino and synthetic) are energy conserving, at least according to ILSAC GF-3 spec. Could it be that "A" is synthetic and "B" is dino? Here's the oil recommendations from the '01 A4:  -
 
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quote:
Could it be that "A" is synthetic and "B" is dino?
Column A shows "Leichtlauföl" - oil that contains friction modifiers and that also meets VW500.00 (replaced by VW502.00). Those oils are to my best knowledge all synthetic oils and almost always "energy conserving." Column B shows multigrade oils, which could be HC, blended, or dino oils. That chart cleary shows that synthetic oil protects at high temperatures better than a dino oil of the same viscosity range. Interesting that your 2001 manual shows no viscosity chart. Do you have a 2.8 30v or a 1.8T?
 
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