Is this a valid reason to fire/give an employee a warning?

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1: HR represents the company, not the employees, despite the misnomer "Human resources". They are NEVER your friend.

2: Why were you outside? Were you on the clocks? Were you on an approved scheduled smoke break? On a smoke break that you can take whenever you feel like it as long as the work gets done?

3: Is this the only door? Is it a short cut?

4: Is there a receptionist, phone, or doorbell so fedex and visitors can get in? Can you call your supervisor if you get locked out?

5: Why did the coworker need to talk to HR? Maybe they're fired or about to get fired, or in a fight over something.

I have worked places with fobs and badges. Most of the doors are the same-- there's a kick panel inside that opens a mechanical latch, and there's a solenoid in the frame that retracts part of the frame around the latch so the door can be pulled open from the outside. These do jam and malfunction-- they're mechancial, after all. But the actuator has a red/green LED that verifies good/bad badging.

As for signing something, he's probably screwed either way. He should offer to take the letter to his off-campus lawyer. They'll probably say he can't leave with it. Then he should say he doesn't feel comfortable signing it. He'll probably get fired either way. IANAL.
 
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So glad I don't work in a place like this it sounds like madness.

Our HR policy is to use common sense and to treat others with respect.

But again we don't work in a secured space like that.

I used to do a government contract for the IRS years ago, and we had similar secured space rules.

We would have a line up of workers and they would have to close the door each time between letting in people and let them badge in one at a time.

It sort of reminded me of being at a work camp or prison.

Your friend sounds interesting, he comes up to a locked door then tries to force his way through it? Maybe a bit hot headed I would say?

Pick up the cell phone and call HR to let you in, I assume you are hourly and are being paid for the time you are waiting. What's the big rush to get back in the building if you are paid by the hour?
 

Ws6

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So glad I don't work in a place like this it sounds like madness.

Our HR policy is to use common sense and to treat others with respect.

But again we don't work in a secured space like that.

I used to do a government contract for the IRS years ago, and we had similar secured space rules.

We would have a line up of workers and they would have to close the door each time between letting in people and let them badge in one at a time.

It sort of reminded me of being at a work camp or prison.

Your friend sounds interesting, he comes up to a locked door then tries to force his way through it? Maybe a bit hot headed I would say?

Pick up the cell phone and call HR to let you in, I assume you are hourly and are being paid for the time you are waiting. What's the big rush to get back in the building if you are paid by the hour?
When you work somewhere that deals with life and death type issues, restriction can be a bit tighter.
 
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Your friend needs to talk to his/her supervisor.
So do you. There is no way a forum like BITOG can answer your questions.

Badges have a purpose. Many purposes, generally. Security is usually the primary purpose.
In Silicon Valley, your are expressly told not to lend your badge, hold a door, tailgate, etc.
Misuse of your badge is grounds for termination.

Pushing a door open when your badge doesn't work is stupid unless there is an emergency.
Good luck.
 

Ws6

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Your friend needs to talk to his/her supervisor.
So do you. There is no way a forum like BITOG can answer your questions.

Badges have a purpose. Many purposes, generally. Security is usually the primary purpose.
In Silicon Valley, your are expressly told not to lend your badge, hold a door, tailgate, etc.
Misuse of your badge is grounds for termination.

Pushing a door open when your badge doesn't work is stupid unless there is an emergency.
Good luck.
Doors which are to be used in an emergency (the HR office door typically is not one...) are by policy never to be locked or blocked, of course. Regulations about this, as well. His friend is...not going to end well, me thinks.
 
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I got it. You've never worked in a secured space. Truly secure.

You never, ever, badge someone else into a space on your badge.

You call, and you wait, to be allowed in.

Letting someone else in on your badge gets you fired.

It doesn't matter if their badge used to work, or if they work in that space. Let HR/security manager/whoever handles access do their job.

If you let them in, you get fired. You have signed paperwork to that effect. That's how security is enforced. If a sailor allowed a fellow sailor into a classified space, both sailors could be fired*.

*Navy equivalent: fined, reduced in rank, and/or kicked out of the Navy. Depends on the circumstances, but career over. No appeal. No discussion.
Letting someone in with your own badge was a really big deal at the company I worked for. In my non-unionized Silicon Valley company everyone was an "at will" employee and could be fired without warning for any reason.

Scott
 
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If the policy is not and instant firing, I’m not quite sure what a “written warning” is going to do. I’d like to hope that they would at least get to ask about it......
A written warning is designed to get the employee's full attention. In a system of progressive discipline, it's working up from verbal reprimand, written warning, days off without pay and finally to dismissal. They can't say they weren't warned. For something really egregious, steps can be skipped - you can get a written warning or even a dismissal right off.

A written warning is not the end of the world. If the employee who received it stays out of trouble, a written warning is typically removed from the employee's file after some set period (2 years typically).

I've delivered verbal reprimands, written warnings, etc. In my experience people who receive a written warning often blow through the whole escalation thing and get themselves dismissed in short order. But at least they were warned which means they had a chance to change course.
 

mosaud1998

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This is a tough one, but most everyone here is right....

I think much of depends on the company they work for, and what they do. At the current job, I can let folks in as I am high up the ranks, and can make those judgement calls. But I have also worked for a few companies were that was an instant firing if you did so. Also heavily depends on what the rules of security are there as well. They do have rules for a reason.....

If the policy is not and instant firing, I’m not quite sure what a “written warning” is going to do. I’d like to hope that they would at least get to ask about it......
I hope he asks about the whole warning things has it can affect his record (I think).
 
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I remember getting a funny look from my boss when I wouldn't let someone tailgate me (after the incident). Turns out it was a VP from a different facility. I wasn't blamed, we all knew "it was the right thing to do", the badge and door locks were kinda new to all of us.

Still feels kinda weird, as for years we didn't have such things, tailgating was not discouraged. Then we grew, and grew, and now it's not allowed. But many of us came from those smaller days, so it's still kinda strange.
 
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First off, as others said this is "his side of the story". Second, I don't think you can get a blanket answer on here because it could be different state laws involved. If it is a union job consult the union to see what's going on and what is in his best interest.

Door being jammed or not really doesn't matter, if he has badge access to that door he could get in and didn't violate anything. He wouldn't know if people are inside or not, if anything he has the benefit of doubt. There might be a meeting inside or there might be someone on break inside, so I do understand that the HR might be upset about this but this warning may or may not be justified depends on what is going on.

What kind of place is your friend trying to get into? Is it the HR's own office or is it an inventory room? What is the reason he wanted to enter it?

Drop that "HR hates him because he makes more money BS", it won't fly well.
 
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I hope he asks about the whole warning things has it can affect his record (I think).
It will go on whether he sign it or not, he should have a say that also go on file if he refuse to sign it, and maybe complain to the higher up in HR (HR also can get complains and there should be also external review on that).
 
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Regarding to why badge work one day but not another:

It can change any time. That's a sign that you are fired if after lunch your badge stopped working suddenly. It could also mean some access is not going to work after hours or stuff like that. Just because it worked yesterday doesn't mean it will work today.
 

mosaud1998

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First off, as others said this is "his side of the story". Second, I don't think you can get a blanket answer on here because it could be different state laws involved. If it is a union job consult the union to see what's going on and what is in his best interest.

Door being jammed or not really doesn't matter, if he has badge access to that door he could get in and didn't violate anything. He wouldn't know if people are inside or not, if anything he has the benefit of doubt. There might be a meeting inside or there might be someone on break inside, so I do understand that the HR might be upset about this but this warning may or may not be justified depends on what is going on.

What kind of place is your friend trying to get into? Is it the HR's own office or is it an inventory room? What is the reason he wanted to enter it?

Drop that "HR hates him because he makes more money BS", it won't fly well.
He was trying to get into the HR office. Which from my experience aren't locked unless there is no HR or other workers in the room.
 
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I have been through those badge swipe doors hundreds of times … never seen one jam … powerful magnets release and the door is free as a bird …
I guess my company is really running out of money then. They are jammed all the time but at least you will hear a click.
 
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He was trying to get into the HR office. Which from my experience aren't locked unless there is no HR or other workers in the room.
Oh boy. He is hosed. This is not going to end well if you try to force into someone's personal office. He should have just leave a note or call, email, etc.

Bursting into HR's office when it is locked, whether he typically have access to it or not, means he is likely emotionally unstable or ready to get into some argument with the HR before all this. I think even if he is technically not violating any rule the higher up will try to get rid of him to make sure he doesn't do anything crazy.
 

mosaud1998

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Oh boy. He is hosed. This is not going to end well if you try to force into someone's personal office. He should have just leave a note or call, email, etc.

Bursting into HR's office when it is locked, whether he typically have access to it or not, means he is likely emotionally unstable or ready to get into some argument with the HR before all this. I think even if he is technically not violating any rule the higher up will try to get rid of him to make sure he doesn't do anything crazy.
Not the HRs personal room. Like just the HR room(where they do paperwork etc). Idk if that made sense :ROFLMAO:
 
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Should he sign the waring paper though?

Usually signing the paper, is to agree that the conversation/warning discussion took place and the employee is aware if the consequences if it happens again. If the employee refuses to sign, another witness is brought in to witness that the employee is aware of what the infraction is and what the consequences are/will be. The management witness will sign where the employee would , stating the employee refuses to sign but was present for the above documented discussion.
Not signing it, will not help the employee in any way in my opinion.
 
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I guess my company is really running out of money then. They are jammed all the time but at least you will hear a click.


I always heard a click unless the scanner didn’t pick it up. Sometimes the badges wear from usage and the barcode or magnetic strip won’t trigger the mechanism. You usually get some hints before that happens.

Badges are used for time clocks too so using another persons badge could lead to that. That is instant grounds for dismissal.

This story is turning into a saga, not unlike some others we have had here recently.
 

mosaud1998

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Usually signing the paper, is to agree that the conversation/warning discussion took place and the employee is aware if the consequences if it happens again. If the employee refuses to sign, another witness is brought in to witness that the employee is aware of what the infraction is and what the consequences are/will be. The management witness will sign where the employee would , stating the employee refuses to sign but was present for the above documented discussion.
Not signing it, will not help the employee in any way in my opinion.
That's what I'm thinking. If he doesn't sign it wouldn't that be somewhat disrespectful?
 
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