Better to stay all dino, or all synthetic, or to use one of the blends, or just throw in a quart on synthetic with your dino?
Is there any benefit to mixing?
- Thread starter MarkC
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It makes no sense-thats why I do it. Seriously though, I think there are benefits. I believe RedLine is the perfect oil to mix. One quart will add serious moly and Esters. I keep hoping we will se some analysis on this brew.
I think LOGICALLY mixing is a good thing. I don't think just throwing oils together is a good thing.
So what is your goal? Is there a purchasable oil for your needs/car/situation/etc? If not AND you know something about oil, a blend can be smart.
So what is your goal? Is there a purchasable oil for your needs/car/situation/etc? If not AND you know something about oil, a blend can be smart.
"It makes no sense - thats why I do it." Me likey...Al rocks!
"Can I mix oil brands?"
"There is no hard data to prove that two oils of the same performance level mixed together will still perform as well as they do individually. The oil industry only runs a few lab tests to make sure additives are compatible when different brands are mixed, but do not conduct engine tests or mixed brand tests. We do know that different oil brands can lay down deposits in different areas of an engine, and there's always the possibility that if you mix two brands, you may get the worst of both worlds, instead of the best. All this applies to mixing oils in engines. Changing your brand of engine oil altogether is no problem. However, you should flush the existing oil before adding the new oil. You should also be aware that engines typically go through a period of adjustment when making the transition from one oil to another. Because brands are formulated with different additives, a new brand may act differently than the old one at first. Increased oil consumption and leaking seals are common adjustment problems. Since additives contain metals, those metals may show up in your first oil analysis reports with the new oil."
http://www.shell.com.cn/english/product/faqs.html
More importantly...
"For my nude massages, I prefer warmed almond oil rubbed over my bottom half, and scented lavender oil gently kneeded onto my top half. While not preferred, mixing the oils is OK." www.BritneySpears.com (Not!)
[ July 17, 2004, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: TC ]
"Can I mix oil brands?"
"There is no hard data to prove that two oils of the same performance level mixed together will still perform as well as they do individually. The oil industry only runs a few lab tests to make sure additives are compatible when different brands are mixed, but do not conduct engine tests or mixed brand tests. We do know that different oil brands can lay down deposits in different areas of an engine, and there's always the possibility that if you mix two brands, you may get the worst of both worlds, instead of the best. All this applies to mixing oils in engines. Changing your brand of engine oil altogether is no problem. However, you should flush the existing oil before adding the new oil. You should also be aware that engines typically go through a period of adjustment when making the transition from one oil to another. Because brands are formulated with different additives, a new brand may act differently than the old one at first. Increased oil consumption and leaking seals are common adjustment problems. Since additives contain metals, those metals may show up in your first oil analysis reports with the new oil."
http://www.shell.com.cn/english/product/faqs.html
More importantly...
"For my nude massages, I prefer warmed almond oil rubbed over my bottom half, and scented lavender oil gently kneeded onto my top half. While not preferred, mixing the oils is OK." www.BritneySpears.com (Not!)
[ July 17, 2004, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: TC ]
i'm mixing for a few reasons.
1. mobil 1 wasn't giving me great results, so i thought i'd try something else.
2. most of the synthetic blends look kind of weak (outside of schaefers)
3. there's not much data here, so i thought i'd provide some.
4. i had coupons for pennzoil, so i bought a case each of dino and synthetic. this is a very important reason.
i dumped in a roughly 50~50 blend, and i'll test it at about 5000 miles.
what the **** , what's the worst thing that could happen?!
1. mobil 1 wasn't giving me great results, so i thought i'd try something else.
2. most of the synthetic blends look kind of weak (outside of schaefers)
3. there's not much data here, so i thought i'd provide some.
4. i had coupons for pennzoil, so i bought a case each of dino and synthetic. this is a very important reason.
i dumped in a roughly 50~50 blend, and i'll test it at about 5000 miles.
what the **** , what's the worst thing that could happen?!
Go for it tweeker43. Sounds like a good plan. I may be doing some mixing too. I am considering mixing 2 quarts NAPA synthetic 15w50 with 4 qts Maxlife 10w40 for a nice thick 10w40 synthetic blend. Another option for the future might include one qt Redline with 5 qts whatever dino is on sale.
I agree! Why mess around with a tested formula , when we are working with such limited and possibly unreliable data?
If our theory is more 'moly is good' and we add a Schaefer #132 moly additive to an inexpensive oil...we might come out ahead.
But when we mix in a high moly oil like Redline to say Mobil 1, how can we tell if the different basestocks and additives will produce better, or worse, results?
Even if we have a god UOA, that is a single bit of data, and no substitute for the more exacting tests , and the huge number of engines which have already run the manufacturer's formulation.
Mobil realeased the early Mobil 1 Dibasic Acid Ester formula and it took a while for them to figure out that it wouldn't last 25,000 miles and that it could cause seal problems.
Mobil later learned that PAO synthetics didn't handle certain deposits well, and didn't work well as an aviation oil in certain piston engines that run leaded fuel.
If it took a while for pros to learn these things, why should we feel that a backyard brew of 'a little of this and a little of that' should produce a better recipe ?
I'm not saying that oils can't be improved upon.
There may be a more nearly optimal viscosity , HTHS, or additve package for a specific need.
I just don't see that we have the basis to be confident that our little experiments are rigorous enough to get us there.
If the forum was to take this on as an engineering project and we had a scientific approach and a large test population....perhaps we could find some good custom mixes...but I question whether we can afford to do such tests with our new engines.
I suppose that if I had an engine with an oil nearing the end of its service life, and an oil change couldn't be scheduled in... I might use an oil additive like #132 Moly or Valvoline's Synpower and Maxlife additives.
If I had a Mobil 1 or Redline fill, and needed to top up and couldn't find the exact viscosity I might use a Redline of a different viscosity to top up a Redline fill....and Mobil 1 for Mobil 1.
But I wouldn't mix Redline with Mobil 1 unless I had to drive an engine that was down a quart...and mixing oils was the lesser of two evils. I would change the oil ASAP though.
To put it in perspective, all the oils that meet manufacturer specs, approvals, API/ILSAC/ACEA ratings are **** good.
The difference between the poorest performing oil and the best performaing oil isn't very much... not compared to how much better modern day oils are relative to oils only 10 years ago. ( At least for most late model engines )
So how much do we stand to gain?
The chances that we can make a significant improvment seem slim... the odds that we might make matters worse could be much greater.
just another perspective:
Although Red Line is compatible with other oils, the chemistry is altered when mixed with other oils/additives. There is no way to tell that mixing is better for your engine or worse.
I think that mixing oil brands be they synthetic or mineral based is something that should only be done if you have no other recourse. If you consider all the testing, both in the laboratory and in the field, that additive and oil companies do before marketing a finished oil, you might realize that there is something called base stock reponse that can affect how well individual additives will perform. If you mix because you are trying to improve the overall quality, its somewhat akin to playing Russian Roulette as the wrong combination can do you in. It may not be a sudden failure, but can be like a chronic problem that gets worse with time.
The problem is that you can mix two oils and visually see no sediment or precipitation forming which can give the illusion that all is well. However, it you were to subject the blend to some type of functional compatibility test or engine test, you might be surprised at what happens. Different blends of oils use different additive components that have been selected to collectively make that formulation meet the required API or ILSAC ratings. When you mix, you change the baseline and anything might happen.
The problem is that you can mix two oils and visually see no sediment or precipitation forming which can give the illusion that all is well. However, it you were to subject the blend to some type of functional compatibility test or engine test, you might be surprised at what happens. Different blends of oils use different additive components that have been selected to collectively make that formulation meet the required API or ILSAC ratings. When you mix, you change the baseline and anything might happen.
True, but I think it would be pretty hard to come up with a mix (using decent oils) that really was bad for your engine in the sense of having a signifiant detrimental effect, even running that mix the life of the engine. And I think the esters in a quart of Redline would likely do more good for the engine than the potential bad side effects of the mix.
I don't think it's a problem. Unless you use the same type of oil all the time you're mixing anyway. I'm pretty sure API requires that they be compatible for this reason. The main benefit is obvious: it allows you to get rid of miscellaneous half-full containers of oil in your older vehicles! Anything outdated is for the lawnmower though. This year it got SJ 10W-30 Castrol Syntec.
There may be a cold starting benefit to adding a quart of synthetic. Rislone makes a product called "Winter Start." It appears to be essentially synthetic motor oil. Assuming I want to try this, do I pay $2.50 for the Rislone stuff, or could I go with the synthetic brand of the same oil company as my regular dino oil?
It apparently works as blends tend to have better cold temp properties than their straight dino counterparts (compare Valvoline Durablend with AllClimate).
I once suggested to a Valvoline tech line person that I might throw a quart of the "full synthetic" Maxlife in with the regular Maxlife and they seemed to think it was a good idea (and they did not tell me not to). Makes sense to me too. Maxlife is about 12-22 percent synthetic, so why not boost it to a range of 30 to 38, if you feel so inclined?
[ July 20, 2004, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: TallPaul ]
It apparently works as blends tend to have better cold temp properties than their straight dino counterparts (compare Valvoline Durablend with AllClimate).
I once suggested to a Valvoline tech line person that I might throw a quart of the "full synthetic" Maxlife in with the regular Maxlife and they seemed to think it was a good idea (and they did not tell me not to). Makes sense to me too. Maxlife is about 12-22 percent synthetic, so why not boost it to a range of 30 to 38, if you feel so inclined?
[ July 20, 2004, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: TallPaul ]
Probably not. I ran Maxlife 10w40 last winter.
Dunno, unless it is some other aspect of the blends that helps cold properties.
No need, but I will try the free Valvoline full synthetic in wife's Aerostar next winter.
If priced cheaper I might. Got some NAPA full synthetic for 2.69 a quart. Probably similar to Valvoline Synpower.
Well,I will mix my Royal Purple with motorcraft 5w20, If it is the thing to do .I think people like the motorcraft 5w20 better than the RP.Any thoughts ?
I've been mixing 3qts or chevron 10/40 with 1qt of mobil-1 5/30 for a synth mix.
I use this in a chevy aveo that bought, it has a daewoo e-tecll engine.
The oil has been changed at 500, 1500, 3000, and is due the 6000 mile change now, all oci have been done using this mix.
Any comments on entending the oci to 5000 miles using this mix.
btw im in southen cali where summer temps going to Vegas can get extreme.
I use this in a chevy aveo that bought, it has a daewoo e-tecll engine.
The oil has been changed at 500, 1500, 3000, and is due the 6000 mile change now, all oci have been done using this mix.
Any comments on entending the oci to 5000 miles using this mix.
btw im in southen cali where summer temps going to Vegas can get extreme.
so, since I can't find chevron delo in 10/30, i could possibly mix 2 qts of chevron supreme 5/30, 2 qts of delo 15/40 to approximate a near 10/35 ? or a couple qts of 5/20 and couple of 15/40 to give me a 10/30 approximation ?
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