is there a place on this BB for race oil discussions?

Messages
439
Location
33463
Being brand spanking new to this BB I was wondering if the topic of racing has a home here? I drag race using a Methanol injected 555cid BBC. Being forced to change from my Dino Kendall 20W-50 has been forced upon me and could use some help in picking the best non synthetic oil available. Don't want to get off on the wrong foot with the syn crowd here it's just an economic reason for running that type oil. any help?
 
Messages
2,569
Location
College Dorm...
quote:
Originally posted by quick_16: could use some help in picking the best non synthetic oil available.
HDEO 15w-40's without a doubt Delvac 1300, Delo 400, Pennz. Long-Life, Rotella-T, etc, etc... In terms of performance/protection, I'll put one of these 15w-40's up against a non-synthetic 20w-50 any day of the week. [ February 02, 2004, 10:53 PM: Message edited by: Jelly ]
 

quick_16

Thread starter
Messages
439
Location
33463
KW Thanks for the nice sign... Kendall is not what it use to be and I'm just unsure if the quality is as high as it was. It use to be green now it's the same as all the other stuff. Jelly... What is HDEO I have never seen that in the SE Fla area. I think Costco sells Delo 400. I wonder what weight it is and if the API is at least SL??? thanks folks [Big Grin]
 
Messages
2,569
Location
College Dorm...
Oh, sorry about that...HDEO stands for Heavy Duty Engine Oil, or what's commonly referred to as "diesel oil", although in reality the "HDEO" 15w-40's are perfectly fine for both gas and diesel engines. Delo 400 is a 15w-40 and is rated API SL, just like all the other HDEO 15w-40's. The best 15w-40's are Delo 400, Delvac 1300, Pennzoil Long-Life, and Rotella-T. Like you said, Delo is available at Costco, but ALL FOUR are available at Wal-Mart for $6/gallon.
 
Messages
38
Location
Michigan
Quick, If you want a fabulous non synthetic racing oil go to Cen-Pe-Co Lubricants out of ohio. Cen-Pe-Co.com they are big in the tractor pulling arena. Not just the farm boys, but the big guns to. I also saw this is being run by Jim Head ,the dragster racer.
 
Messages
14,013
Location
Retired | Wausau, WI
I would highly recommend Pennzoil GT25W50 Racing Oil. It has additives in it that help with the wash you get from methanol and nitro fuels. It's been around for many years and used with great success.
 
Messages
263
Location
San Diego, CA
Johnny, great point; alcohol and nitro cars have a lot more wall-wash than gas cars. Anything to minimize this would give the 'best' protection. ferb!
 
Messages
250
Location
Phoenix, AZ USA
quote:
Originally posted by quick_16: I drag race using a Methanol injected 555cid BBC.
Wow, you drag-race with a British Broadcasting Corporation-powered somethingorother? [Smile]
 
Messages
2,602
Location
The Tropics of Antartica
The Kendall Nitro 70 is still all that [Smile] but I'm with you in that I would not personnaly use the 20w-50 in your methanol burning motor . I've not seen any Pennzoil in a long time but the Valvoline VR1 20-50 has what it takes for methanol and up to a 20% nitro spike if it's not making huge power depicting **** for large clearances and a higher vi oil . Although more expensive many are reporting great results with the new Lucas Oil and methanol use . Just don't use a diesel oil [Smile]
 
Messages
2,569
Location
College Dorm...
quote:
Originally posted by Motorbike: The Kendall Nitro 70 is still all that [Smile] but I'm with you in that I would not personnaly use the 20w-50 in your methanol burning motor . I've not seen any Pennzoil in a long time but the Valvoline VR1 20-50 has what it takes for methanol and up to a 20% nitro spike if it's not making huge power depicting **** for large clearances and a higher vi oil . Although more expensive many are reporting great results with the new Lucas Oil and methanol use . Just don't use a diesel oil [Smile]
Alright motorbike, I'll bite... To me, most "racing" oils are just like "motorcycle" oils...yes, fine oils, but you pay WAY TOO MUCH for something (anti-wear, HT/HS, etc...) that could have been had in another oil costing a great deal less. You seem knowledgeable in the subject, so what is the additive or additives in Valvoline VR1 that prevent fuel wash/contamination? Are these not present in 15w-40 HDEO's? I recommended the 15w-40's because first off, the guy changes the oil after ever run (or at least very, very often), so I would choose something very cost effective. You can't get much better than $6/gallon for a good oil. I do feel the viscosity is a tad on the thin side for draggin'(15.5cSt), but the HTHS of 4.3 offsets this, and at least for me, gives a good combo of great flow but also good protection. Basically, all I'm asking is this...if you can prove to me that there is actually something very much different in a VR1 type oil in comparison to a 15w-40 HDEO, then I will retract everything I've said and agree with you to run a "racing" oil. [ February 03, 2004, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: Jelly ]
 

quick_16

Thread starter
Messages
439
Location
33463
Apparently Chevron is a poor choice for my application. Below is the response from Chevron and my question to them (below that). That kind of sucks, but figures as it was my least cost option. [Frown] The Valvoline is available in my area for $2.29 at Autozone. Could not find Race Pennzoil. Perhaps I should look more??? Anyway, I would be interested in you thoughts on the comment from Chevron regarding the 2 bad byproducts that I make there oil not suitable. "2 combustion products of methanol combustion is formaldehyde and formic acid" [Duh!] This was the very reason I came to the BB ... I'm clueless and with the proven Kendall 20W-50 now obsolete, feel very nervous about the new selection. is "special additized oils" The Race VR-1 Valvoline has that right? Chevron response>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul, Our Supreme or Delo would not be the oil for this application. The main reason is the methanol fuel that requires special additives not found in our oils. I am quite sure you are aware that 2 combustion products of methanol combustion is formaldehyde and formic acid. It is for this reason that our oils would not work in your application. Again, these combustion products require special additized oils and the Supreme and Delo do not have them. Lube Tek, Wil my question>>>>>>>>>>>>> I race a 555cid 1000hp bbc engine using injected methanol. Was looking at using your non synthetic oils. I had been using Kendall 20W-50 but they changed the blend and I'm looking to change. I change the 9qts about ever 25 1/4 passes. Considering the weight what you recommend? Supreme? Delo? Thanks Paul
 
Messages
2,636
Location
Arizona
The Pennzoil 25W50 is good stuff. I used help one of the top sprint car teams in PA and we used Pennzoil exclusively and never had any oil related failures.
 

quick_16

Thread starter
Messages
439
Location
33463
quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence Richards: Quick, If you want a fabulous non synthetic racing oil go to Cen-Pe-Co Lubricants out of ohio. Cen-Pe-Co.com they are big in the tractor pulling arena. Not just the farm boys, but the big guns to. I also saw this is being run by Jim Head ,the dragster racer.
Hi Lawarence, Well I did contact Brad Penn and here is most of the response from one of the folks. "Thank you for your inquiry on our Penn-Grade™ 1 Racing Oils. To give you a little bit of history, Kendall lubricants were refined at our Bradford refinery from 1881 to 1997. In 1997, the Kendall name was sold to Sunoco. Since then, the Kendall name has been sold to 76 and I believe now, Phillips/Conoco owns the rights to the name. At the same time, American Refining Group, Inc. (ARG), a privately held energy company headquartered in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, purchased the old Kendall refinery in Bradford, Pennsylvania from Witco Corporation. We still had 40 million gallons of product going out our door and needed a new name for them. So, in an attempt to pay homage to the local folks in Bradford, Pennsylvania, a new name was given to the products produced at the Bradford refinery – BRAD PENN® Premium Pennsylvania Grade Lubricants. The Bradford refinery is the only refinery processing 100% Pennsylvania Grade crude oil. In fact, it is the oldest continuously operated lube oil refinery in the world. Lubricants refined from Pennsylvania Grade crude oil have been the choice of manufacturers and consumers throughout the world. Take Pennzoil® and Quaker State, for example. Their names imply the use of Pennsylvania base oils. However, they moved out of the area about 10 years ago thinking that the crude oil was pretty much used up. Little did they know, they simply drilled too far down. New technology in the industry has told us too come up about 400 ft. Geologist tell us now, that approximately 70% of those reserves are still in tact. Too bad for Pennzoil and Quaker State as our owner has bought up all of their properties in the area. Now, to answer your question of “Do we make an identical oil to the ‘old’ Kendall GT-1?” The answer is yes and no. The same formulation chemist, John Cannella, who formulated the original Kendall GT-1 stayed with American Refining Group. The original Kendall GT-1 was 100% mineral based. What he did was soup up the additive package and put a slug of synthetic base oil in our formulation to optimize the performance features. So, our BRAD PENN® Penn-Grade™1 20W-50 Racing Oil is now a partial synthetic. But the key to the formulation and to the old Kendall GT-1 formulation is the use of ‘bright stock’. Bright Stock is a unique base oil cut unique to Pennsylvania Grade crude oil and our Bradford refinery. It has an extremely high affinity to seek out metal surfaces and attach itself. This “clingabilty” for lack of a better term, is the reason engine builders all over the country fell in love with the old Kendall GT-1 product that came out of our Bradford refinery. One it get there, it stays there. Since 80% of engine wear takes place at start-up, the clingability of our bright stock to metal surfaces protects those critical engine components than anything I’ve seen out in the market, while the slug of synthetic base oil allows the engine to run about 10 degrees cooler." So here is what the facts are... I'm still not sure what to do but as there is not a great deal of racing oil here or experience with methanol fueled combustion I will search out a race BB for more information. I was hoping one of the reported oil experts that are on here from time to time may help out but.... thanks Paul [ February 04, 2004, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: quick_16 ]
 
Messages
14,013
Location
Retired | Wausau, WI
quick_16: If you are looking for a mineral based racing oil that works well with methanol there are several, but the two I would use are the Pennzoil GT25W50 Racing Oil or the Valvoline VR1 Racing oil. Both should be fairly easy to find. As for as the post above. I've heard of blowing smoke, but this is some of the biggest smoke I've read. Pennzoil and Quaker State leaving PA had absolutely nothing to do with what oil is in the ground in PA. It had to do with economics plane and simple. As for as brite stocks, every major oil company makes brite stocks. Good luck in your search.
 
Messages
6,388
Location
Washington St.
This week, brite stock is $1.69/gal from ExxonMobil, $1.73 from Valero, $1.74 from Citgo, $1.77 from Calumet, and similar prices from other refiners. http://www.lubereport.com/e_article000224375.cfm?x=a2yJBNj,a12MT5WC "Definition: BRIGHT STOCK - high viscosity oil, highly refined and dewaxed, produced from residual stocks or bottoms. Named for their SUS viscosity at 210°F, having viscosities ranging from about 500 to 1100 cSt at 40°C. They are HVI oils refined to clear products of good color. Used for blending with lower viscosity oils." www.chevron.com/prodserv/NewOronite/library/li_dictionary_b.htm Ken
 

quick_16

Thread starter
Messages
439
Location
33463
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny: quick_16: If you are looking for a mineral based racing oil that works well with methanol there are several, but the two I would use are the Pennzoil GT25W50 Racing Oil or the Valvoline VR1 Racing oil. Both should be fairly easy to find. As for as the post above. I've heard of blowing smoke, but this is some of the biggest smoke I've read. Pennzoil and Quaker State leaving PA had absolutely nothing to do with what oil is in the ground in PA. It had to do with economics plane and simple. As for as brite stocks, every major oil company makes brite stocks. Good luck in your search.
Thanks Johnny and all. I have decided to use the Vavoline 20W-50 VR-1. [Patriot]
 
Top