Is the Corvette next to go out of business?
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Kestas
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We can speculate all we want. We'll see what happens.
Steve "Chooch" Rattner is the de facto boss of GM, and I doubt that Corvettes (or XLR's, or CTS's, or Camaro's, or anything other than small, basic, fwd transportation appliances) will survive much longer.
If you want a Corvette, or some other fun car made by GM, I would get one while you still can.
If you want a Corvette, or some other fun car made by GM, I would get one while you still can.
Originally Posted By: Win
Steve "Chooch" Rattner is the de facto boss of GM, and I doubt that Corvettes (or XLR's, or CTS's, or Camaro's, or anything other than small, basic, fwd transportation appliances) will survive much longer.
If you want a Corvette, or some other fun car made by GM, I would get one while you still can.
I guess it will die a slow death?
Just run the line until demand peters out,but spend no$$$ on new designs
Steve "Chooch" Rattner is the de facto boss of GM, and I doubt that Corvettes (or XLR's, or CTS's, or Camaro's, or anything other than small, basic, fwd transportation appliances) will survive much longer.
If you want a Corvette, or some other fun car made by GM, I would get one while you still can.
I guess it will die a slow death?
Just run the line until demand peters out,but spend no$$$ on new designs
Hopefully they're smarter than to think they'll ever survive with no halo cars or anything else that much of the American public still craves. If GM can't offer fun, excitement and visual appeal, they'll quickly cease to exist. Lots full of yawn-inducing econoboxex and dull-as-dishwater family sedans isn't a sustainable plan for a company that hasn't built a long reputation for quality. Thus far, Toyota is the only maker that can get away with that strategy. Unique cars like the Camaro, Corvette, Cobalt SS, Sky, and fresh designs like the upcoming LaCrosse will be essential to their survival. Excitement and uniqueness has to be present to offset consumers' quality concerns. If they start offering nothing but ugly toasters with marginal quality, they might as well close the doors.
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Originally Posted By: ViragoBry
Hopefully they're smarter than to think they'll ever survive with no halo cars or anything else that much of the American public still craves. If GM can't offer fun, excitement and visual appeal, they'll quickly cease to exist. Lots full of yawn-inducing econoboxex and dull-as-dishwater family sedans isn't a sustainable plan for a company that hasn't built a long reputation for quality. Thus far, Toyota is the only maker that can get away with that strategy. Unique cars like the Camaro, Corvette, Cobalt SS, Sky, and fresh designs like the upcoming LaCrosse will be essential to their survival. Excitement and uniqueness has to be present to offset consumers' quality concerns. If they start offering nothing but ugly toasters with marginal quality, they might as well close the doors.
With 7 Billion in losses in the 1st quarter, it doesn't sound like Toyota can get away with it either.
Hopefully they're smarter than to think they'll ever survive with no halo cars or anything else that much of the American public still craves. If GM can't offer fun, excitement and visual appeal, they'll quickly cease to exist. Lots full of yawn-inducing econoboxex and dull-as-dishwater family sedans isn't a sustainable plan for a company that hasn't built a long reputation for quality. Thus far, Toyota is the only maker that can get away with that strategy. Unique cars like the Camaro, Corvette, Cobalt SS, Sky, and fresh designs like the upcoming LaCrosse will be essential to their survival. Excitement and uniqueness has to be present to offset consumers' quality concerns. If they start offering nothing but ugly toasters with marginal quality, they might as well close the doors.
With 7 Billion in losses in the 1st quarter, it doesn't sound like Toyota can get away with it either.
Originally Posted By: ViragoBry
... Does anyone think they're ready to kill off the Caddy XLR as well, because if Corvette production ceases, that also takes away Cadillac's only Mercedes SL competition. I can't see them continuing the XLR as a stand-alone product of the Corvette plant.
The XLR has already been nixed...
http://www.xlr-net.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3080
... Does anyone think they're ready to kill off the Caddy XLR as well, because if Corvette production ceases, that also takes away Cadillac's only Mercedes SL competition. I can't see them continuing the XLR as a stand-alone product of the Corvette plant.
The XLR has already been nixed...
http://www.xlr-net.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3080
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Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
Plus GM has a rule on the Corvette: cannot out run them,Buick got slapped for it in the mid 1980s with the GNXs with the turbo charged 3.8s which were out running with them.Pontiac was too,the 2004 GTOs had to be detuned because they were outrunning the Corvettes.The worst fuel system GM put on them was the twin TBI set up with two throttle bodies,nothing but problems with this EFI system called the fuel system from h^&@.The fix for this system is to throw it away and replace it with Multi Port fuel injection or with a carburator
yes, but rules change. FWIW, even the regular GN (245hp) was faster than the corvette(235hp) the GNX was a last year, limited production car, had 300hp.
it took chevrolet many years to come out w/ the Z06 (405hp) because they had always said there wouldn't be a more powerful corvette than the 1st gen ZR-1 (imagine that, we can make a single cam OHV V8 outperform a 4cammer, and do it for $20K less!)
the corvette, to fulfill its role as an image car, MUST always appear to be more powerful, more exclusive; so the vette always gets a higher hp rating. as far as the XLR, the corvette people schit a brick when they were forced to accept it. they couldn't fathom the thought of another American sports car.
Plus GM has a rule on the Corvette: cannot out run them,Buick got slapped for it in the mid 1980s with the GNXs with the turbo charged 3.8s which were out running with them.Pontiac was too,the 2004 GTOs had to be detuned because they were outrunning the Corvettes.The worst fuel system GM put on them was the twin TBI set up with two throttle bodies,nothing but problems with this EFI system called the fuel system from h^&@.The fix for this system is to throw it away and replace it with Multi Port fuel injection or with a carburator
yes, but rules change. FWIW, even the regular GN (245hp) was faster than the corvette(235hp) the GNX was a last year, limited production car, had 300hp.
it took chevrolet many years to come out w/ the Z06 (405hp) because they had always said there wouldn't be a more powerful corvette than the 1st gen ZR-1 (imagine that, we can make a single cam OHV V8 outperform a 4cammer, and do it for $20K less!)
the corvette, to fulfill its role as an image car, MUST always appear to be more powerful, more exclusive; so the vette always gets a higher hp rating. as far as the XLR, the corvette people schit a brick when they were forced to accept it. they couldn't fathom the thought of another American sports car.
I didn't know the 04 Goats had to be detuned. They were just a standard LS1 engine that would be on par with a LS1 Vette. The z06 (do special models not count) would have walked the floor with it.
Originally Posted By: Buffman
I didn't know the 04 Goats had to be detuned. They were just a standard LS1 engine that would be on par with a LS1 Vette. The z06 (do special models not count) would have walked the floor with it.
'detuned' could just be a matter of a different ECM flash. IIRC, the F bodies had a more restrictive intake, lowered the hp a little. I suspect most of it is advertised output.
GM is very good at offering the same engine a number of different ways. the LS series V8 can be tuned for many different applications.
I didn't know the 04 Goats had to be detuned. They were just a standard LS1 engine that would be on par with a LS1 Vette. The z06 (do special models not count) would have walked the floor with it.
'detuned' could just be a matter of a different ECM flash. IIRC, the F bodies had a more restrictive intake, lowered the hp a little. I suspect most of it is advertised output.
GM is very good at offering the same engine a number of different ways. the LS series V8 can be tuned for many different applications.
A/N Lists GM Nameplates To Be Cut; Chevy & Buick To Add Nameplates
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Source: Automotive News Email Alert
GM nameplates shrinking from 47 to 34
Richard Truett - Automotive News - April 27, 2009
DETROIT -- As General Motors ends production of Pontiac, Saturn, Saab and Hummer vehicles, the number of nameplates will shrink to 34 from 47, GM CEO Fritz Henderson said today.
No vehicles will be cut from the four surviving GM brands. All of the cuts to existing nameplates will come from the brands GM intends to discontinue, Troy Clarke, GM's president of North America, said today at a media event. He said that for brands such as Chevrolet, GM intends to actually add nameplates over the next few years.
Clarke would not say whether some future vehicles intended for Pontiac vehicles could be become Buicks. Clarke did say, "We want to continue to develop the Buick brand, and that'll mean adding products to the Buick lineup."
Jamie LaReau contributed to this report
PHASE OUTS
Here are the vehicles that are being phased out, most at the end of the 2009 model year.
• Pontiac: G8, G6, G5, G3, Solstice, Torrent, Vibe
• Hummer: H2, H3, H3T
• Saab: 9-3, 9-5, 9-7
• Saturn:Astra, Aura, Outlook, Sky, Vue
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Automotive News Email Alert
GM nameplates shrinking from 47 to 34
Richard Truett - Automotive News - April 27, 2009
DETROIT -- As General Motors ends production of Pontiac, Saturn, Saab and Hummer vehicles, the number of nameplates will shrink to 34 from 47, GM CEO Fritz Henderson said today.
No vehicles will be cut from the four surviving GM brands. All of the cuts to existing nameplates will come from the brands GM intends to discontinue, Troy Clarke, GM's president of North America, said today at a media event. He said that for brands such as Chevrolet, GM intends to actually add nameplates over the next few years.
Clarke would not say whether some future vehicles intended for Pontiac vehicles could be become Buicks. Clarke did say, "We want to continue to develop the Buick brand, and that'll mean adding products to the Buick lineup."
Jamie LaReau contributed to this report
PHASE OUTS
Here are the vehicles that are being phased out, most at the end of the 2009 model year.
• Pontiac: G8, G6, G5, G3, Solstice, Torrent, Vibe
• Hummer: H2, H3, H3T
• Saab: 9-3, 9-5, 9-7
• Saturn:Astra, Aura, Outlook, Sky, Vue
Originally Posted By: Patman
I don't think the Corvette will die, it's definitely a moneymaker for GM still and it also draws people into the showroom. I'd be willing to bet that many other Chevy vehicles have been sold because the dealer had a nice Corvette on display, so someone went in to check it out and even if that person didn't buy the Corvette they ended up buying another Chevy instead. It's the type of car that draws a crowd.
I absolutely love my 98 Corvette, and plan on keeping it forever, but I also want to someday buy myself a brand new one (and give this one to my wife) so if it dies I will be very disappointed (although at the same time there are always people buying new Corvettes and then only driving them 1000 miles a year so there will never be a shortage of super low mileage examples for sale)
I'm with you.
My '05 still isn't broken in even though it's had four (4) oil changes already.
Corvette is GM's boutique vehicle. A lot of R&D comes out of the vehicle into other platforms. Corvette is profitable so it should stay in production.
I don't think the Corvette will die, it's definitely a moneymaker for GM still and it also draws people into the showroom. I'd be willing to bet that many other Chevy vehicles have been sold because the dealer had a nice Corvette on display, so someone went in to check it out and even if that person didn't buy the Corvette they ended up buying another Chevy instead. It's the type of car that draws a crowd.
I absolutely love my 98 Corvette, and plan on keeping it forever, but I also want to someday buy myself a brand new one (and give this one to my wife) so if it dies I will be very disappointed (although at the same time there are always people buying new Corvettes and then only driving them 1000 miles a year so there will never be a shortage of super low mileage examples for sale)
I'm with you.
My '05 still isn't broken in even though it's had four (4) oil changes already.
Corvette is GM's boutique vehicle. A lot of R&D comes out of the vehicle into other platforms. Corvette is profitable so it should stay in production.
Originally Posted By: jigen
I don't know exact numbers, but the new C6 vettes seems to be selling very well -- I see them everywhere. For a 430HP V8 these things are also pretty fuel efficient!
They only sold 36,000 Corvettes in 2008, a better than average year for Corvette. The car has a lot of parts that are only used on that car and a lot of labor on a relatively un-automated assembly line. With the base Corvette selling in the neighborhood of a real price of $40,000, it's doubtful that they make any money on it.
When they axe the XLR, that will raise Corvette production costs a bit more because the XLR has a lot of under the skin commonality and is built in the same plant.
Edit: added relatively
I don't know exact numbers, but the new C6 vettes seems to be selling very well -- I see them everywhere. For a 430HP V8 these things are also pretty fuel efficient!
They only sold 36,000 Corvettes in 2008, a better than average year for Corvette. The car has a lot of parts that are only used on that car and a lot of labor on a relatively un-automated assembly line. With the base Corvette selling in the neighborhood of a real price of $40,000, it's doubtful that they make any money on it.
When they axe the XLR, that will raise Corvette production costs a bit more because the XLR has a lot of under the skin commonality and is built in the same plant.
Edit: added relatively
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Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: jigen
I don't know exact numbers, but the new C6 vettes seems to be selling very well -- I see them everywhere. For a 430HP V8 these things are also pretty fuel efficient!
They only sold 36,000 Corvettes in 2008, a better than average year for Corvette. The car has a lot of parts that are only used on that car and a lot of labor on a un-automated assembly line. With the base Corvette selling in the neighborhood of a real price of $40,000, it's doubtful that they make any money on it.
When they axe the XLR, that will raise Corvette production costs a bit more because the XLR has a lot of under the skin commonality and is built in the same plant.
un-automated assembly line? That's an oxymoron. But, I've corrected this before - Bowling Green is just as automated as any other auto plant.
Originally Posted By: jigen
I don't know exact numbers, but the new C6 vettes seems to be selling very well -- I see them everywhere. For a 430HP V8 these things are also pretty fuel efficient!
They only sold 36,000 Corvettes in 2008, a better than average year for Corvette. The car has a lot of parts that are only used on that car and a lot of labor on a un-automated assembly line. With the base Corvette selling in the neighborhood of a real price of $40,000, it's doubtful that they make any money on it.
When they axe the XLR, that will raise Corvette production costs a bit more because the XLR has a lot of under the skin commonality and is built in the same plant.
un-automated assembly line? That's an oxymoron. But, I've corrected this before - Bowling Green is just as automated as any other auto plant.
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Originally Posted By: GMBoy
un-automated assembly line? That's an oxymoron. But, I've corrected this before - Bowling Green is just as automated as any other auto plant.
I toured that plant a few years ago. Never been in any other auto plant, but it sure seemed plenty automated to me.
un-automated assembly line? That's an oxymoron. But, I've corrected this before - Bowling Green is just as automated as any other auto plant.
I toured that plant a few years ago. Never been in any other auto plant, but it sure seemed plenty automated to me.
Bowling Green has a labor intensive line unless they have replaced it since I was there in 2006.
Bowling Green has the highest labor hours per vehicle of any American car plant at 42.09 hours. Most cars run in the low 20s per vehicle. Even the lower production Lansing Grand River plant Cad STS at about 1/2 the cars per year is only 27.94 hours.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...howflat&fpart=3
Bowling Green has the highest labor hours per vehicle of any American car plant at 42.09 hours. Most cars run in the low 20s per vehicle. Even the lower production Lansing Grand River plant Cad STS at about 1/2 the cars per year is only 27.94 hours.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...howflat&fpart=3
The Corvette is the only G.M. worth owning.
The 35MPG law is fleetwide -- cars and light trucks. Vettes are sold in such small volume in the US that they won't have much of an impact. Much of the gains will have to come from increasing the MPG of trucks.
Furthermore, CAFE only applies to vehicles sold in the US. GM has solid sales outside NA. Even in the worst case scenario, they'll keep producing the Vette but not sell them in the US, or just pay the CAFE penalties
Furthermore, CAFE only applies to vehicles sold in the US. GM has solid sales outside NA. Even in the worst case scenario, they'll keep producing the Vette but not sell them in the US, or just pay the CAFE penalties
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