is Synthetic essential in Turbo engines?
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On an aftermarket setup, I would use synthetic and with short OCIs. Why? Because no aftermarket setup has the same level of engineering and testing as OEM. Also the fuel trims will not be as finely tuned to the turbo by the aftermarkets guys.
Synthetic should provide the extra margin of safety in case things run hotter than expected, or there is a problem with cooling the turbo after shutdown. Doing the short OCIs is for the potential fuel dilution problems, in which case both dino and synthetics are equally affected.
Synthetic should provide the extra margin of safety in case things run hotter than expected, or there is a problem with cooling the turbo after shutdown. Doing the short OCIs is for the potential fuel dilution problems, in which case both dino and synthetics are equally affected.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Lots of OTR diesel engines have turbos and use conventional. So, synthetic is obviously not "essential."
We can't make that blanket statement across all applications. EGTs on diesels, especially medium and heavy duty trucks, are typically far lower than gas engines.
Lots of OTR diesel engines have turbos and use conventional. So, synthetic is obviously not "essential."
We can't make that blanket statement across all applications. EGTs on diesels, especially medium and heavy duty trucks, are typically far lower than gas engines.
Modern GF5 conventional is designed to perform in Turbo applications. You can certainly run a modern conventional in a Turbo engine.
Big trucks also have a much larger oil capacity. Heavy duty cooling and where designed with regular oil in mind.
A lot depends on how hard he runs it. A stock turbo ran nicely most of the time. Convention oil is fine. But a tuned or hard run engine can really benefit from the extra thermal breakdown protection from syn oil
A lot depends on how hard he runs it. A stock turbo ran nicely most of the time. Convention oil is fine. But a tuned or hard run engine can really benefit from the extra thermal breakdown protection from syn oil
Whatever reasons there are to use synthetics in a conventional engine, consider them to be more critical in a turbo motor. Some believe syn oil is required in a conventional engine, so the answer regarding turbo motors is easy.
If you feel conventional oil is fine in a atmospheric intake motor, you will have then considered why; apply the same logic to your turbo motor conditions and see what conclusion comes of it.
Personally, I would not consider using anything but synthetics in a turbo engine because of the temperatures involved, the higher cost of repair, and the increased likelihood of catastrophic engine failure in comparison to atmospheric type motors should a lubricant-related failure occur.
If you feel conventional oil is fine in a atmospheric intake motor, you will have then considered why; apply the same logic to your turbo motor conditions and see what conclusion comes of it.
Personally, I would not consider using anything but synthetics in a turbo engine because of the temperatures involved, the higher cost of repair, and the increased likelihood of catastrophic engine failure in comparison to atmospheric type motors should a lubricant-related failure occur.
Originally Posted By: marine65
I'm not an oil expert.
But I am convinced synthetic oil is the way to go in all engines.
Lets look at it this way.
Conventional oil about $15.00 for a 5 quart jug.
Synthetic oil about $23.00 for a 5 quart jug.
$8.00 difference.
How much is an engine worth?
Here in Europe 23 Dollars won't buy you even a low quality Dino / Mineral oil , a high quality full synthetic will be over 50 or even 60 Dollars
I'm not an oil expert.
But I am convinced synthetic oil is the way to go in all engines.
Lets look at it this way.
Conventional oil about $15.00 for a 5 quart jug.
Synthetic oil about $23.00 for a 5 quart jug.
$8.00 difference.
How much is an engine worth?
Here in Europe 23 Dollars won't buy you even a low quality Dino / Mineral oil , a high quality full synthetic will be over 50 or even 60 Dollars
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Originally Posted By: donnyj08
Modern GF5 conventional is designed to perform in Turbo applications. You can certainly run a modern conventional in a Turbo engine.
Modern GF5 conventional is designed to perform in Turbo applications. You can certainly run a modern conventional in a Turbo engine.
Originally Posted By: BobFout
We can't make that blanket statement across all applications. EGTs on diesels, especially medium and heavy duty trucks, are typically far lower than gas engines.
Of course, but the question was very broad. Some engines do call for specifications that are synthetics, or at least blends, and they are turbocharged. Others simply do not.
We can't make that blanket statement across all applications. EGTs on diesels, especially medium and heavy duty trucks, are typically far lower than gas engines.
Of course, but the question was very broad. Some engines do call for specifications that are synthetics, or at least blends, and they are turbocharged. Others simply do not.
In a diesel turbo i would not hesitate to use conventional if its according to the manufacturers spec.
But in a gasoline turbo engine i would never use anything else than a fullsynthetic oil.
Cant really compare a diesel turbo with a gas turbo..
But in a gasoline turbo engine i would never use anything else than a fullsynthetic oil.
Cant really compare a diesel turbo with a gas turbo..
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Sure you can, within reason. A gasser doesn't automatically need synthetic. The old Audi 200 Turbo I used to own had more than sufficient oil cooling, plus after-run cooling systems. As for diesel turbos, we're forgetting that some of them, notably agricultural equipment, often run full boost for hours at a time. You'll see some nifty exhaust gas temperatures there.
Full syn oil in this car will make it faster because the guys billfold will be lighter. Going fast is all about saving weight. And it is a myth that syn oil handles heat better than dino oil in temperatures that we see on street driven cars or truck.
No. Not essential.
Not essential, but not preferred.
See how well a GF-5 oil does below vs a good synthetic.
https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-...charged-engines
See how well a GF-5 oil does below vs a good synthetic.
https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-...charged-engines
I would never go as far as saying a synthetic is required or even does better than a good conventional in a turbo application.
I think what you get with the extra money is maybe some extra piece of mind from thermal breakdown....
No mention of any cost decision points but I may add you can get excellent synthetics in Kendall or Sunoco for the cost of off the shelf conventional. Look around there is free shipping available.
http://petroleumservicecompany.com/sunoco-ultra-fs-5w-30.html
http://petroleumservicecompany.com/kendall-gt-1-fs-w-ti-10w-30.html
I think what you get with the extra money is maybe some extra piece of mind from thermal breakdown....
No mention of any cost decision points but I may add you can get excellent synthetics in Kendall or Sunoco for the cost of off the shelf conventional. Look around there is free shipping available.
http://petroleumservicecompany.com/sunoco-ultra-fs-5w-30.html
http://petroleumservicecompany.com/kendall-gt-1-fs-w-ti-10w-30.html
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
Originally Posted By: marine65
I'm not an oil expert.
But I am convinced synthetic oil is the way to go in all engines.
Lets look at it this way.
Conventional oil about $15.00 for a 5 quart jug.
Synthetic oil about $23.00 for a 5 quart jug.
$8.00 difference.
How much is an engine worth?
Here in Europe 23 Dollars won't buy you even a low quality Dino / Mineral oil , a high quality full synthetic will be over 50 or even 60 Dollars
You are getting ripped off...
Yes, those are the prices in car parts stores, home improvement shops or similar and gas stations will charge even more.
But there are also specialised lubricant dealers that sell online (and ship across europe). I have used both www.oeldepot24.de and www.motoroel100.de and was very satisfied. Shipment was fast (within Germany, received my oil within two days at the latest) and prices are much, much better... Mobil1 New life can be had for 32-36€/5L, Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40 for just 20€/5L, and many group III 5w-40 sell even below 20€/5L.
Shipment to Spain might take a bit longer and costs a bit more, but if you buy more than one jug, that won't matter so much...
Originally Posted By: marine65
I'm not an oil expert.
But I am convinced synthetic oil is the way to go in all engines.
Lets look at it this way.
Conventional oil about $15.00 for a 5 quart jug.
Synthetic oil about $23.00 for a 5 quart jug.
$8.00 difference.
How much is an engine worth?
Here in Europe 23 Dollars won't buy you even a low quality Dino / Mineral oil , a high quality full synthetic will be over 50 or even 60 Dollars
You are getting ripped off...
Yes, those are the prices in car parts stores, home improvement shops or similar and gas stations will charge even more.
But there are also specialised lubricant dealers that sell online (and ship across europe). I have used both www.oeldepot24.de and www.motoroel100.de and was very satisfied. Shipment was fast (within Germany, received my oil within two days at the latest) and prices are much, much better... Mobil1 New life can be had for 32-36€/5L, Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40 for just 20€/5L, and many group III 5w-40 sell even below 20€/5L.
Shipment to Spain might take a bit longer and costs a bit more, but if you buy more than one jug, that won't matter so much...
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To those saying that EGT on gas motors are higher than OTR trucks, you just ain't been there... Cars loaf along at cruise most of their life. Trucks, full fuel - full boost for the whole run-up through the tranny (21 speeds...) and full boost every hill. Up the grapevine it'll be boosted for 1/2 hour easy with the first 4 ft of the 4" exhaust system cherry red (including the turbo) - that's HEAT !!
The comment about farm motors, yeah, 8 hours of plowing with full boost - same as above.
Marine engines working on a push boat - full boost for days up the mighty Miss ...
Cars, nothing... 15 seconds of boost to pass somebody - big deal. 1 minute of boost to get over a hill - big deal.
The point is that those engines I described above have been running HDEO oils (dino) for decades for 100's of millions of miles. They didn't need syns back then, and they don't now.
Jet engines, whole nuther story. Anyone here running a jet?
Most turbo motors in cars call for syns to prevent coking the turbos in case the idiot behind the wheel shuts it off straight after a hard run. If cooled by idling for any amount of time (like parking, etc.) they do fine on HDEO's too.
That's what I'd suggest for your friend and his build. He's going to stress a lot of parts and HTHS is his friend and zddp is his friend. HDEO's have it all. He can go syn blend if he thinks he needs it...
Also UOA's are required because he needs to know if he's losing metal anywhere... If the tests come back good, extend the changes.
Building hot-rod motors is not about slapping parts together. It's about re-engineering. That means data. Oil opinions are pretty meaningless. Lets see what the data says ...
The comment about farm motors, yeah, 8 hours of plowing with full boost - same as above.
Marine engines working on a push boat - full boost for days up the mighty Miss ...
Cars, nothing... 15 seconds of boost to pass somebody - big deal. 1 minute of boost to get over a hill - big deal.
The point is that those engines I described above have been running HDEO oils (dino) for decades for 100's of millions of miles. They didn't need syns back then, and they don't now.
Jet engines, whole nuther story. Anyone here running a jet?
Most turbo motors in cars call for syns to prevent coking the turbos in case the idiot behind the wheel shuts it off straight after a hard run. If cooled by idling for any amount of time (like parking, etc.) they do fine on HDEO's too.
That's what I'd suggest for your friend and his build. He's going to stress a lot of parts and HTHS is his friend and zddp is his friend. HDEO's have it all. He can go syn blend if he thinks he needs it...
Also UOA's are required because he needs to know if he's losing metal anywhere... If the tests come back good, extend the changes.
Building hot-rod motors is not about slapping parts together. It's about re-engineering. That means data. Oil opinions are pretty meaningless. Lets see what the data says ...
Thanks for the replies i think he's already decided to use M1 15w50
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