oci? Or should I change the filter at 5k?
Is OEM filter for 07 4 cylinder Camry good for10K
- Thread starter teddyboy
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: Kuato
IMHO if the owner's manual says 10k it should be all right.
This.
According to the AMSOIL test, Toyota filters are not what one would call "high efficiency" so I would think they'd be fine for however long Toyota allows.
IMHO if the owner's manual says 10k it should be all right.
This.
According to the AMSOIL test, Toyota filters are not what one would call "high efficiency" so I would think they'd be fine for however long Toyota allows.
Originally Posted By: Kuato
IMHO if the owner's manual says 10k it should be all right.
Agree.
plus, the Toyota engine will outlast the body/frame unless you drive a lot.
IMHO if the owner's manual says 10k it should be all right.
Agree.
plus, the Toyota engine will outlast the body/frame unless you drive a lot.
This was posted by Leakyseals yesterday. Not impressive at all IMO. I'd take about any aftermarket over this.
[/quote]
[/quote]
Not impressive at all how? Really, one has no idea how old that filter is nor how many miles were on it at the time this video was made. And those Denso foam filters have been used on millions of Toyota cars over the years, just because he can pull it apart says nothing.
And dipbrain in the video should be wearing gloves when in contact with used oil. That drives me nuts.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
This was posted by Leakyseals yesterday. Not impressive at all IMO. I'd take about any aftermarket over this.
And dipbrain in the video should be wearing gloves when in contact with used oil. That drives me nuts.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
This was posted by Leakyseals yesterday. Not impressive at all IMO. I'd take about any aftermarket over this.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Not impressive at all how? Really, one has no idea how old that filter is nor how many miles were on it at the time this video was made. And those Denso foam filters have been used on millions of Toyota cars over the years, just because he can pull it apart says nothing.
I was mostly referring to what appears to be a poor or cheap design, but you are aware these have also been tested at an appallingly low 50% efficiency rating aren't you?
But I also mentioned I'm sure they work, as long as a filter doesn't desentigrate or stick in bypass it's just not that important for normal OCI's. But I'm a filter nerd anyway.
Not impressive at all how? Really, one has no idea how old that filter is nor how many miles were on it at the time this video was made. And those Denso foam filters have been used on millions of Toyota cars over the years, just because he can pull it apart says nothing.
I was mostly referring to what appears to be a poor or cheap design, but you are aware these have also been tested at an appallingly low 50% efficiency rating aren't you?
But I also mentioned I'm sure they work, as long as a filter doesn't desentigrate or stick in bypass it's just not that important for normal OCI's. But I'm a filter nerd anyway.
Where have you ever seen an efficiency test of a Denso foam filter element? Denso publishes no such data themselves for neither the paper nor the foam types. I have seen on Amsoil's website the little bar chart but that is for a paper element which doesn't apply here. Besides, I wouldn't trust one data point from a competitor even if it were for the same filter, which this isn't.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I was mostly referring to what appears to be a poor or cheap design, but you are aware these have also been tested at an appallingly low 50% efficiency rating aren't you?
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I was mostly referring to what appears to be a poor or cheap design, but you are aware these have also been tested at an appallingly low 50% efficiency rating aren't you?
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Where have you ever seen an efficiency test of a Denso foam filter element? Denso publishes no such data themselves for neither the paper nor the foam types. I have seen on Amsoil's website the little bar chart but that is for a paper element which doesn't apply here. Besides, I wouldn't trust one data point from a competitor even if it were for the same filter, which this isn't.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I was mostly referring to what appears to be a poor or cheap design, but you are aware these have also been tested at an appallingly low 50% efficiency rating aren't you?
Amsoil independent test per latest ISO efficiency test standards (ISO 4548-12). Toyota filter in the test was the Denso (probably made in Thailand). Yes, it's the paper filter ... maybe there's a reason Denso doesn't publish efficiency specs on their filters.
I stopped using the Denso filters on my Tacoma after seeing how inefficient they were.
http://www.thebestoil.com/amsoilsyntheti...ls.aspx?id=1156
Where have you ever seen an efficiency test of a Denso foam filter element? Denso publishes no such data themselves for neither the paper nor the foam types. I have seen on Amsoil's website the little bar chart but that is for a paper element which doesn't apply here. Besides, I wouldn't trust one data point from a competitor even if it were for the same filter, which this isn't.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I was mostly referring to what appears to be a poor or cheap design, but you are aware these have also been tested at an appallingly low 50% efficiency rating aren't you?
Amsoil independent test per latest ISO efficiency test standards (ISO 4548-12). Toyota filter in the test was the Denso (probably made in Thailand). Yes, it's the paper filter ... maybe there's a reason Denso doesn't publish efficiency specs on their filters.
http://www.thebestoil.com/amsoilsyntheti...ls.aspx?id=1156
So KCJeep's post about the foam filters is inaccurate or at least unsubstantiated since no one knows what those foam filters do, or don't do.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Where have you ever seen an efficiency test of a Denso foam filter element? Denso publishes no such data themselves for neither the paper nor the foam types. I have seen on Amsoil's website the little bar chart but that is for a paper element which doesn't apply here. Besides, I wouldn't trust one data point from a competitor even if it were for the same filter, which this isn't.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I was mostly referring to what appears to be a poor or cheap design, but you are aware these have also been tested at an appallingly low 50% efficiency rating aren't you?
Amsoil independent test per latest ISO efficiency test standards (ISO 4548-12). Toyota filter in the test was the Denso (probably made in Thailand). Yes, it's the paper filter ... maybe there's a reason Denso doesn't publish efficiency specs on their filters.
I stopped using the Denso filters on my Tacoma after seeing how inefficient they were.
http://www.thebestoil.com/amsoilsyntheti...ls.aspx?id=1156
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Where have you ever seen an efficiency test of a Denso foam filter element? Denso publishes no such data themselves for neither the paper nor the foam types. I have seen on Amsoil's website the little bar chart but that is for a paper element which doesn't apply here. Besides, I wouldn't trust one data point from a competitor even if it were for the same filter, which this isn't.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I was mostly referring to what appears to be a poor or cheap design, but you are aware these have also been tested at an appallingly low 50% efficiency rating aren't you?
Amsoil independent test per latest ISO efficiency test standards (ISO 4548-12). Toyota filter in the test was the Denso (probably made in Thailand). Yes, it's the paper filter ... maybe there's a reason Denso doesn't publish efficiency specs on their filters.
http://www.thebestoil.com/amsoilsyntheti...ls.aspx?id=1156
Originally Posted By: kschachn
So KCJeep's post about the foam filters is inaccurate or at least unsubstantiated since no one knows what those foam filters do, or don't do.
True, but you could always pay an independent test lab to run ISO 4548-12 for you on one of those foam jobbers. I think it would only cost around $5K.
So KCJeep's post about the foam filters is inaccurate or at least unsubstantiated since no one knows what those foam filters do, or don't do.
True, but you could always pay an independent test lab to run ISO 4548-12 for you on one of those foam jobbers. I think it would only cost around $5K.
LOL, I couldn't care less what they do. You can only buy them in the grey market now, and at highly inflated prices. The only reason people buy them is because they are different, not because they are better. They might be but they might not. No one knows.
And I wonder if Amsoil's lab was independent?
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: kschachn
So KCJeep's post about the foam filters is inaccurate or at least unsubstantiated since no one knows what those foam filters do, or don't do.
True, but you could always pay an independent test lab to run ISO 4548-12 for you on one of those foam jobbers. I think it would only cost around $5K.
And I wonder if Amsoil's lab was independent?
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: kschachn
So KCJeep's post about the foam filters is inaccurate or at least unsubstantiated since no one knows what those foam filters do, or don't do.
True, but you could always pay an independent test lab to run ISO 4548-12 for you on one of those foam jobbers. I think it would only cost around $5K.
My understanding is Toyota is spec'ing OEM filters to be around 50%, it's intentional I'm sure they have their reasons. It's an oil filter for crying out loud I didn't kick your dog, it is what it is.
Honda's filters are spec'd at about 65%, again intentionally. I find it interesting that's about exaclty where both the Honda and Toyota filters fell in Amsoil's test, 65% and 50%. It is reasonable to believe the Denso foam filter also meets Toyota's OEM spec of 50% as well, expecially since it's got three large gaps in the foam that let barely filtered oil through it and back into the engine.
Nobody really knows for sure why but there has been some speculation about oil pumps being on the weak side possibly being the cause of the low efficiency spec, which will inevitably result in high flow, a good thing for a weak oil pump.
I am getting suspicious about the Hyundia/KIA OEM filters, especially since they have had some engine knock issues that were resolved by OEM filters. They even issued a TSB about it.
I've never actually seen an efficiency test of a Hyundia/KIA OEM filter but I'm betting it's low as well. Seems to be an issue more prevalent with the older Hyundai/KIA's that use a spin on filter rather than the cartridge filters.
Honda's filters are spec'd at about 65%, again intentionally. I find it interesting that's about exaclty where both the Honda and Toyota filters fell in Amsoil's test, 65% and 50%. It is reasonable to believe the Denso foam filter also meets Toyota's OEM spec of 50% as well, expecially since it's got three large gaps in the foam that let barely filtered oil through it and back into the engine.
Nobody really knows for sure why but there has been some speculation about oil pumps being on the weak side possibly being the cause of the low efficiency spec, which will inevitably result in high flow, a good thing for a weak oil pump.
I am getting suspicious about the Hyundia/KIA OEM filters, especially since they have had some engine knock issues that were resolved by OEM filters. They even issued a TSB about it.
I've never actually seen an efficiency test of a Hyundia/KIA OEM filter but I'm betting it's low as well. Seems to be an issue more prevalent with the older Hyundai/KIA's that use a spin on filter rather than the cartridge filters.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Nobody really knows for sure why but there has been some speculation about oil pumps being on the weak side possibly being the cause of the low efficiency spec, which will inevitably result in high flow, a good thing for a weak oil pump.
I am getting suspicious about the Hyundia/KIA OEM filters, especially since they have had some engine knock issues that were resolved by OEM filters. They even issued a TSB about it.
It very well could be that the oil pumps on Asian vehicles are somewhat "weak", which would be a good reason to make the filter more free flowing - all that does is ensure the pump doesn't go into pressure relief sooner than it should. If the oil pump does hit pressure relief very quickly due to flow resistance, then the flow rate going to the engine could be reduced.
But even a filter like the PureOne is pretty free flowing ... you've seen the SuperBusa thread showing bench testing date from Purolator. Only 5 PSID at 12 GPM of oil flow with hot oil. Pretty good flow IMO.
Very well could be that the Hyundia/KIA engines have pretty weak, low flowing oil pumps, and they need a sieve for a filter in order to maintain good oil flow to the engine. IMO, the oil pump would have to be pretty anemic for an oil filter to make a noticeable difference in engine noises.
Nobody really knows for sure why but there has been some speculation about oil pumps being on the weak side possibly being the cause of the low efficiency spec, which will inevitably result in high flow, a good thing for a weak oil pump.
I am getting suspicious about the Hyundia/KIA OEM filters, especially since they have had some engine knock issues that were resolved by OEM filters. They even issued a TSB about it.
It very well could be that the oil pumps on Asian vehicles are somewhat "weak", which would be a good reason to make the filter more free flowing - all that does is ensure the pump doesn't go into pressure relief sooner than it should. If the oil pump does hit pressure relief very quickly due to flow resistance, then the flow rate going to the engine could be reduced.
But even a filter like the PureOne is pretty free flowing ... you've seen the SuperBusa thread showing bench testing date from Purolator. Only 5 PSID at 12 GPM of oil flow with hot oil. Pretty good flow IMO.
Very well could be that the Hyundia/KIA engines have pretty weak, low flowing oil pumps, and they need a sieve for a filter in order to maintain good oil flow to the engine. IMO, the oil pump would have to be pretty anemic for an oil filter to make a noticeable difference in engine noises.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Nobody really knows for sure why but there has been some speculation about oil pumps being on the weak side possibly being the cause of the low efficiency spec, which will inevitably result in high flow, a good thing for a weak oil pump.
I am getting suspicious about the Hyundia/KIA OEM filters, especially since they have had some engine knock issues that were resolved by OEM filters. They even issued a TSB about it.
It very well could be that the oil pumps on Asian vehicles are somewhat "weak", which would be a good reason to make the filter more free flowing - all that does is ensure the pump doesn't go into pressure relief sooner than it should. If the oil pump does hit pressure relief very quickly due to flow resistance, then the flow rate going to the engine could be reduced.
But even a filter like the PureOne is pretty free flowing ... you've seen the SuperBusa thread showing bench testing date from Purolator. Only 5 PSID at 12 GPM of oil flow with hot oil. Pretty good flow IMO.
Very well could be that the Hyundia/KIA engines have pretty weak, low flowing oil pumps, and they need a sieve for a filter in order to maintain good oil flow to the engine. IMO, the oil pump would have to be pretty anemic for an oil filter to make a noticeable difference in engine noises.
I agree and I don't know that anybody really knows for sure other than the manufacturers themselves. I agree plenty of aftermarket filters do flow very well at higher efficiencies, which may be why so many are used in Hyundai/KIA's without problem despite the TSB. The filter actually pictured in the Hyundai TSB regarding the engine knock was an ecore.
I am using a Napa Gold cartridge filter in our KIA without issue, but I think the TSB is really aimed at older vehicles with spin on filters.
On a side note, my Jeep 4.0 is known for an adequate but not particularly strong oil pump. My 4.0 will "knock" if I use overly thick oil in it. I tried a fill of 15w40 Delo in it once and it knocked, too thick for it, and it took a partial drain and a quart of MMO to eliminate it. That is an oil way over spec for the engine but I do think it's oil pump related and an interesting aside to our conversation.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Nobody really knows for sure why but there has been some speculation about oil pumps being on the weak side possibly being the cause of the low efficiency spec, which will inevitably result in high flow, a good thing for a weak oil pump.
I am getting suspicious about the Hyundia/KIA OEM filters, especially since they have had some engine knock issues that were resolved by OEM filters. They even issued a TSB about it.
It very well could be that the oil pumps on Asian vehicles are somewhat "weak", which would be a good reason to make the filter more free flowing - all that does is ensure the pump doesn't go into pressure relief sooner than it should. If the oil pump does hit pressure relief very quickly due to flow resistance, then the flow rate going to the engine could be reduced.
But even a filter like the PureOne is pretty free flowing ... you've seen the SuperBusa thread showing bench testing date from Purolator. Only 5 PSID at 12 GPM of oil flow with hot oil. Pretty good flow IMO.
Very well could be that the Hyundia/KIA engines have pretty weak, low flowing oil pumps, and they need a sieve for a filter in order to maintain good oil flow to the engine. IMO, the oil pump would have to be pretty anemic for an oil filter to make a noticeable difference in engine noises.
I agree and I don't know that anybody really knows for sure other than the manufacturers themselves. I agree plenty of aftermarket filters do flow very well at higher efficiencies, which may be why so many are used in Hyundai/KIA's without problem despite the TSB. The filter actually pictured in the Hyundai TSB regarding the engine knock was an ecore.
I am using a Napa Gold cartridge filter in our KIA without issue, but I think the TSB is really aimed at older vehicles with spin on filters.
On a side note, my Jeep 4.0 is known for an adequate but not particularly strong oil pump. My 4.0 will "knock" if I use overly thick oil in it. I tried a fill of 15w40 Delo in it once and it knocked, too thick for it, and it took a partial drain and a quart of MMO to eliminate it. That is an oil way over spec for the engine but I do think it's oil pump related and an interesting aside to our conversation.
- Status
