Is Mobil pricing themselves out of the market?
- Thread starter pzev
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I think this drifted a little off topic. The question is not about syn vs dyno, but about how M1 compares to *other* synth oils.
From what I have seen on this board, M1EP is nothing special. Combine that with $6.50 a quart and you see where this question came from. There are very few oils I am willing to pay close to $7 a quart for, and M1 is not one of them.
I think an important aspect is what Mobil has done to its product line. Like many others, I think they have created to many products.
When I was W-mart the other day, I watched as a man stared at the M1 section for a good 10-15 minutes looking at M1, M1EP, and M1T&Suv. He was obviously confused but eventually walked off with the EP.
Maybe I should switch to Redline, at least that way I feel I am getting something for my $7.
From what I have seen on this board, M1EP is nothing special. Combine that with $6.50 a quart and you see where this question came from. There are very few oils I am willing to pay close to $7 a quart for, and M1 is not one of them.
I think an important aspect is what Mobil has done to its product line. Like many others, I think they have created to many products.
When I was W-mart the other day, I watched as a man stared at the M1 section for a good 10-15 minutes looking at M1, M1EP, and M1T&Suv. He was obviously confused but eventually walked off with the EP.
Maybe I should switch to Redline, at least that way I feel I am getting something for my $7.
I checked my Walmart price for 5w30 Mobil 1 in a 5 quart jug at 22.95 or about $4.60/quart. I will stick with Mobil for now but, if going higher then I'll reconsider. PP was 18.95/5 quart jug or ~ 3.80/quart. I think the only real losers are thouse who continue to use to 3-5,000 OCI.
The advertising and pricing of M1 is not for members of this board. It's for the much bigger market out there. If they will pay over six bucks for EP then good for Mobil. We stopped using regular M1 in fleet service a little while ago. We use an oil that I don't think anyone here has experience with, Chevron Supreme Synthetic, a GIII oil. It's way less than half the price and the uoa's are at least equal and maybe better. It's just that CSS has no great public racing image, no fancy bottles or flashy advertising, just a pretty good oil. You M1 fans should keep using it if you're getting good results. Why change? Except for the price hike. You could say we got priced out of their market, but, take price out and, knowing what we know now, we'd still change to CSS. There is not that much difference between the best and worst oil on the market. They are very close. You pay a lot for the difference, in many cases. Maybe when Mobil 1 first came out the differences were much more than today.
I hate price gouging. I do my own oil/filter changes and if I buy a 5 quart jug of M1 and use 4 quarts for an oil change that's =$18.20 + a $6 pureOne filter or $24.20 for 5-7,000 miles of driving. Not really high finance when you can spend $4 a day for smokes or $5 for beer.
Larryt: Tell us more about Chevron Supreme Synthetic. UOAs? where to buy, product data sheet listing some pertanent information? Thanks Ed Hayes
JHZR2
Staff member
I love how 3x3000mi OCIs with $2 dino is good, but 1x9000mi OCI with $6 syn is bad.
Especially considering that most manufacturers suggest 7500 mi or so OCIs for DINO oil!
When you consider the cost of time, recycling and a new filter (I doubt thatmost 3kmi OCIers leave the filter on), 9000 mile OCIs with any decent syn really arent the end of the world, and also conserve quite a bit, while breaking even or better.
Especially if you dope your syn with LC and go for 9000 miles, do you really have much to worry about?
Now, you could say that you are doping dino with LC, but at that point, most will tell you not to exceed 5000 miles anyway. So the differences becone small once again, as youre essentially paying $4 per filled crankcase quart over the 9000mi interval.
I dont get it.
JMH
Especially considering that most manufacturers suggest 7500 mi or so OCIs for DINO oil!
When you consider the cost of time, recycling and a new filter (I doubt thatmost 3kmi OCIers leave the filter on), 9000 mile OCIs with any decent syn really arent the end of the world, and also conserve quite a bit, while breaking even or better.
Especially if you dope your syn with LC and go for 9000 miles, do you really have much to worry about?
Now, you could say that you are doping dino with LC, but at that point, most will tell you not to exceed 5000 miles anyway. So the differences becone small once again, as youre essentially paying $4 per filled crankcase quart over the 9000mi interval.
I dont get it.
JMH
Dang, I paid $1/Gallon for my Delo 30. If I wanted to use that in my Honda, I'd be sitting pretty. Heck, I'd trade for some PP or even M1, 1G to 1Q.
I guess I'll have to force-feed stashed GC into my 2 Hondas.
Can you say, "powertrain warranty provisions"? Do you get it now?
So how long are your OCI's? If you say 15K or less, then you are the loser, at least financially, and I don't mean that disrespectfully.
Eddie, the company has it's own lab and does not publish results. I do the software by contract, and develop analysis for maintenance intervals, do the 80/20 stuff for components. They contract out for parts, supplies and fluids in a manner only known to purchasing. After looking at a lot of data, and with a big price break, they started using Chevron Supreme Synthetic. They were gradually switching until Mobil raised the price. It's not know on this board, so probably no one thinks it's any good. They won't know it's good until someone tells them so. Many that post on this board, appear to be just as taken by the very images and advertising they complaign about. Knowledge becomes common knowledge and if you cross it, you might get flamed. So, Chevron Supreme Synthetic is proving to be a very good oil, especiall for the price. In fact, if you want regular Chevron Supreme oil, in Southern Calfornia, the coupon price is $0.58 a quart. They make good products. They just don't have a name with the public like Mobil 1 does. So, it must be common knowledge that M1 is better. And to answer your question, as I've said before, the results over almost a year show it to be doing as well as M1. We can't give a better answer because we tear down so few cars, to look and measure. I've tried to publish results, but they say, let people pay for their own.
Thanks Larryt
When my Mobil 1 is gone, it's GONE!
JHZR2
Staff member
Most cars dont require a 3000mi OCI in anything but the most severe condions... our toyota, MB and acura explicitly say 7500mi in the car itself...quote:
Originally posted by Ray H:
Can you say, "powertrain warranty provisions"? Do you get it now?
JMH
Thank LarryL, I checked and it's one of very few oils that meets GM4718M. It's on GMs approved list according to a genuine Corvette Expert (Hib Halberson)and it says that it meets 4718M in the Chevron literature.
Some of the botique oils say "use where 4718M is required" or other weasel words.
Some of the botique oils say "use where 4718M is required" or other weasel words.
You guys on BITOG correctly advised me to switch to synth 2 years ago. I went with M1 and have been happy with it in 3 cars. I'm now using M1-EP. I doubled my OCI to 6 months in my 2 "around-town" cars and am using 1 year OCI in my son's "college car". However, the recent price of M1 is quite high, and has caused me to wonder what to do next.
I know that it wasn't their fault, but I am tired of the post-Katrina "suitable for" labeling, which I never bought, and unfortunately is still on the shelf at my local W-M. What is that stuff?
If M1 is so good, then why do they keep changing the chemistry, even in the relatively short 2 years that I have used it?
I have concluded that I am willing to pay a premium price for a premium product, but I don't know what XOM is doing one month to the next. I need stability in this product.
I know that it wasn't their fault, but I am tired of the post-Katrina "suitable for" labeling, which I never bought, and unfortunately is still on the shelf at my local W-M. What is that stuff?
If M1 is so good, then why do they keep changing the chemistry, even in the relatively short 2 years that I have used it?
I have concluded that I am willing to pay a premium price for a premium product, but I don't know what XOM is doing one month to the next. I need stability in this product.
JHZR2
Staff member
I know some like and some dislike it... but perhaps the Amsoil dealers can comment on the state of their formulations, and the stability of the makeup and potential for changes for their oils, barring a change in API spec anytime soon...
It seems that amsoil was playing with formulations a lot, but that their formulations are pretty consistent now...
Any comment... many of us M1ers may need to consider jumping ship, at least in some applications...
Thanks!
JMH
It seems that amsoil was playing with formulations a lot, but that their formulations are pretty consistent now...
Any comment... many of us M1ers may need to consider jumping ship, at least in some applications...
Thanks!
JMH
What I'm curious about is where do the 0w Mobil 1 oils fit in? I mean, heck...the 0w-40 is World-class and can do amazing drains. The 0w-30 is basicly the same oil w/o the thickeners and comes in an enhanced version as Saab Synth w/GM specs. The 0w-20 is state-of-the-art and can do 12-15k anyway. What's the deal with the EP line? Is it just for people who don't know or are afraid of 0w oils? Say, compare and contrast M1 5w-30, 0w-30 and 5w-30 EP...all SM. For the same money, are the 0ws a better deal than regular M1, excepting the fact you can get the jug price on the regs, I guess.
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