Read somewhere that high calcium oils can trigger an LSPI event. According to some VOAs I've stumbled upon, the current formulation of Mobil 1 Euro 0w-40 has close to 3000 ppm of calcium, which is quite a lot. Conversely, I've read that ZDDP also lowers the chance of an LSPI event, which this oil sufficiently possesses. Recently I switched from Mobil 1 EP 5w-30 to 0w-40 thinking it might be better for my turbo 2.0L Ford in the hot summers of California. Just want to make sure I'm not screwing anything up. I assume that if Audi and VW specs it for their turbos, it shouldn't be a problem for a Ford.
Is Mobil 1 Euro 0w-40 LSPI prone?
- Thread starter MrStamper
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Plenty of Mercedes-Benz and BMW engines that have power factors to make them prone to LSPI that M1 Euro 0W-40 with no issues.
LSPI events goes up with Ca detergent concentration in a linear fashion.
While ZDDP quenches LSPI events in an exponential fashion, so a little more ZDDP goes a long way to stop LSPI.
This was the finding from a Infineum study
https://www.infineuminsight.com/en-gb/articles/passenger-cars/quenching-low-speed-pre-ignition/
Euro A3/B4 engine oil with all the OEMs like BMW LL-01, MB 229.5, Porsche A40 tend to carry about 25% more ZDDP than an ILSAC rated fuel economy oil (800 ppm Vs 1000 ppm being typical).
Note, look for A3/B4 and the OEMs for higher ZDDP or better yet look at a VOA analysis of the oil. I say this because I saw a VOA of Amazon Basic Euro A3/B4 and it didn't have any Euro OEMs and it just had ILSAC levels of ZDDP.
While ZDDP quenches LSPI events in an exponential fashion, so a little more ZDDP goes a long way to stop LSPI.
This was the finding from a Infineum study
https://www.infineuminsight.com/en-gb/articles/passenger-cars/quenching-low-speed-pre-ignition/
Euro A3/B4 engine oil with all the OEMs like BMW LL-01, MB 229.5, Porsche A40 tend to carry about 25% more ZDDP than an ILSAC rated fuel economy oil (800 ppm Vs 1000 ppm being typical).
Note, look for A3/B4 and the OEMs for higher ZDDP or better yet look at a VOA analysis of the oil. I say this because I saw a VOA of Amazon Basic Euro A3/B4 and it didn't have any Euro OEMs and it just had ILSAC levels of ZDDP.
Originally Posted by SR5
Euro A3/B4 engine oil with all the OEMs like BMW LL-01, MB 229.5, Porsche A40 tend to carry about 25% more ZDDP than an ILSAC rated fuel economy oil (800 ppm Vs 1000 ppm being typical).
Note, look for A3/B4 and the OEMs for higher ZDDP or better yet look at a VOA analysis of the oil. I say this because I saw a VOA of Amazon Basic Euro A3/B4 and it didn't have any Euro OEMs and it just had ILSAC levels of ZDDP.
Partly soothes my paranoia and it was a reason why I went with the euro spec. It's cool that the Europeans aren't reducing zddp like the Americans are appearing to do. Lots of pro-zinc articles here on bitog.
Euro A3/B4 engine oil with all the OEMs like BMW LL-01, MB 229.5, Porsche A40 tend to carry about 25% more ZDDP than an ILSAC rated fuel economy oil (800 ppm Vs 1000 ppm being typical).
Note, look for A3/B4 and the OEMs for higher ZDDP or better yet look at a VOA analysis of the oil. I say this because I saw a VOA of Amazon Basic Euro A3/B4 and it didn't have any Euro OEMs and it just had ILSAC levels of ZDDP.
Partly soothes my paranoia and it was a reason why I went with the euro spec. It's cool that the Europeans aren't reducing zddp like the Americans are appearing to do. Lots of pro-zinc articles here on bitog.
In Australia it's very common for our oils to carry both American API specs and Euro ACEA specs, for example I have a jug of full-synthetic Castrol Magnatec 5W30 and it's rated both API SN and ACEA A3/B4.
ZDDP is a very good additive
- it reduces LSPI events to protect the engine
- it's an anti-oxidant that protects the oils itself for longer oil life and OCI
- it's an anti-wear agent that protects the metal of the engine when the oil film breaks down
I think the Euro OEM level of around 1000 ppm is spot on for most applications.
Sure the Phos in it can damage exhaust cats in an oil burning car, yet Europe has been running this level of ZDDP for decades without issue.
ZDDP is a very good additive
- it reduces LSPI events to protect the engine
- it's an anti-oxidant that protects the oils itself for longer oil life and OCI
- it's an anti-wear agent that protects the metal of the engine when the oil film breaks down
I think the Euro OEM level of around 1000 ppm is spot on for most applications.
Sure the Phos in it can damage exhaust cats in an oil burning car, yet Europe has been running this level of ZDDP for decades without issue.
Tell that to my engine that used VW 502.00 (ACEA B3/B4) oil for 100,000 miles that died of piston skirt damage from LPSI.
A great alternative is PP 0w40 SN+. LSPI protection and A3/B4
Originally Posted by MrStamper
Read somewhere that high calcium oils can trigger an LSPI event. According to some VOAs I've stumbled upon, the current formulation of Mobil 1 Euro 0w-40 has close to 3000 ppm of calcium, which is quite a lot. Conversely, I've read that ZDDP also lowers the chance of an LSPI event, which this oil sufficiently possesses. Recently I switched from Mobil 1 EP 5w-30 to 0w-40 thinking it might be better for my turbo 2.0L Ford in the hot summers of California. Just want to make sure I'm not screwing anything up. I assume that if Audi and VW specs it for their turbos, it shouldn't be a problem for a Ford.
Low calcium oil is band aid to LSPI issue. You are paying attention on oils here in the US. However in Europe, all vehicles, gasoline or diesels are running on oils that have low ZDDP levels. For example in the US BMW is still using LL01 in its gasoline engines, but in EU they are using LL04 since 2009, yet they do not have LSPI issues. Only known LSPI issue in Euro engines was first generation 1.4 turbo/compressor engine in VW. But VW resolved that quickly.
However, you have to take into consideration that European manufacturers are way ahead in so called "downsizing" game than American or Asian companies.
Also, 2.0 ltr engines are not as prone to LSPI. LSPI is primarily problem in engines 1.6ltr and lower displacement. 2.oltr engine in 2020 that has LSPI issue is poor engineering, there is no way around that. Personally, your choice of oil is good as Mobil1 0W40 FS is almost 0W30 oil. It is very light W40 oil.
Read somewhere that high calcium oils can trigger an LSPI event. According to some VOAs I've stumbled upon, the current formulation of Mobil 1 Euro 0w-40 has close to 3000 ppm of calcium, which is quite a lot. Conversely, I've read that ZDDP also lowers the chance of an LSPI event, which this oil sufficiently possesses. Recently I switched from Mobil 1 EP 5w-30 to 0w-40 thinking it might be better for my turbo 2.0L Ford in the hot summers of California. Just want to make sure I'm not screwing anything up. I assume that if Audi and VW specs it for their turbos, it shouldn't be a problem for a Ford.
Low calcium oil is band aid to LSPI issue. You are paying attention on oils here in the US. However in Europe, all vehicles, gasoline or diesels are running on oils that have low ZDDP levels. For example in the US BMW is still using LL01 in its gasoline engines, but in EU they are using LL04 since 2009, yet they do not have LSPI issues. Only known LSPI issue in Euro engines was first generation 1.4 turbo/compressor engine in VW. But VW resolved that quickly.
However, you have to take into consideration that European manufacturers are way ahead in so called "downsizing" game than American or Asian companies.
Also, 2.0 ltr engines are not as prone to LSPI. LSPI is primarily problem in engines 1.6ltr and lower displacement. 2.oltr engine in 2020 that has LSPI issue is poor engineering, there is no way around that. Personally, your choice of oil is good as Mobil1 0W40 FS is almost 0W30 oil. It is very light W40 oil.
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Originally Posted by Rand
where are you seeing a recent m1 0w40 VOA?
I found a VOA on the internet, but it's not very recent. It's from 2016. Comparing it to one from 2013, it had lower calcium so I figured it was an updated formula. Been trying to find a 2020 one but it's non-existant lol
https://m.imgur.com/714HbQ2
where are you seeing a recent m1 0w40 VOA?
I found a VOA on the internet, but it's not very recent. It's from 2016. Comparing it to one from 2013, it had lower calcium so I figured it was an updated formula. Been trying to find a 2020 one but it's non-existant lol
https://m.imgur.com/714HbQ2
Originally Posted by edyvw
Low calcium oil is band aid to LSPI issue. You are paying attention on oils here in the US. However in Europe, all vehicles, gasoline or diesels are running on oils that have low ZDDP levels. For example in the US BMW is still using LL01 in its gasoline engines, but in EU they are using LL04 since 2009, yet they do not have LSPI issues. Only known LSPI issue in Euro engines was first generation 1.4 turbo/compressor engine in VW. But VW resolved that quickly.
However, you have to take into consideration that European manufacturers are way ahead in so called "downsizing" game than American or Asian companies.
Also, 2.0 ltr engines are not as prone to LSPI. LSPI is primarily problem in engines 1.6ltr and lower displacement. 2.oltr engine in 2020 that has LSPI issue is poor engineering, there is no way around that. Personally, your choice of oil is good as Mobil1 0W40 FS is almost 0W30 oil. It is very light W40 oil.
I think you're on to something. In the ford community LSPI is almost unspoken of, though it is feared. For example on the focus St forums it's the bogeyman but the common factor for blown engines is aftermarket tunes. If I remember correctly, GM developed their Dexos tests due to the 1.6L ecotec blowing up. The Ecoboost is better platform in that regard. Heck, Ford specs semi-synth in-house Motorcraft for their EcoBoosts
Low calcium oil is band aid to LSPI issue. You are paying attention on oils here in the US. However in Europe, all vehicles, gasoline or diesels are running on oils that have low ZDDP levels. For example in the US BMW is still using LL01 in its gasoline engines, but in EU they are using LL04 since 2009, yet they do not have LSPI issues. Only known LSPI issue in Euro engines was first generation 1.4 turbo/compressor engine in VW. But VW resolved that quickly.
However, you have to take into consideration that European manufacturers are way ahead in so called "downsizing" game than American or Asian companies.
Also, 2.0 ltr engines are not as prone to LSPI. LSPI is primarily problem in engines 1.6ltr and lower displacement. 2.oltr engine in 2020 that has LSPI issue is poor engineering, there is no way around that. Personally, your choice of oil is good as Mobil1 0W40 FS is almost 0W30 oil. It is very light W40 oil.
I think you're on to something. In the ford community LSPI is almost unspoken of, though it is feared. For example on the focus St forums it's the bogeyman but the common factor for blown engines is aftermarket tunes. If I remember correctly, GM developed their Dexos tests due to the 1.6L ecotec blowing up. The Ecoboost is better platform in that regard. Heck, Ford specs semi-synth in-house Motorcraft for their EcoBoosts
Last edited:
Originally Posted by MrStamper
Originally Posted by edyvw
Low calcium oil is band aid to LSPI issue. You are paying attention on oils here in the US. However in Europe, all vehicles, gasoline or diesels are running on oils that have low ZDDP levels. For example in the US BMW is still using LL01 in its gasoline engines, but in EU they are using LL04 since 2009, yet they do not have LSPI issues. Only known LSPI issue in Euro engines was first generation 1.4 turbo/compressor engine in VW. But VW resolved that quickly.
However, you have to take into consideration that European manufacturers are way ahead in so called "downsizing" game than American or Asian companies.
Also, 2.0 ltr engines are not as prone to LSPI. LSPI is primarily problem in engines 1.6ltr and lower displacement. 2.oltr engine in 2020 that has LSPI issue is poor engineering, there is no way around that. Personally, your choice of oil is good as Mobil1 0W40 FS is almost 0W30 oil. It is very light W40 oil.
I think you're on to something. In the ford community LSPI is almost unspoken of, though it is feared. For example on the focus St forums it's the bogeyman but the common factor for blown engines is aftermarket tunes. If I remember correctly, GM developed their Dexos tests due to the 1.6L ecotec blowing up. The Ecoboost is better platform in that regard. Heck, Ford specs semi-synth in-house Motorcraft for their EcoBoosts
Both Ford and GM have some know-how from their European brands. So, both have more experience with turbo applications than Asian manufacturers where LSPI is common in some brands. Also, Focus ST issue is not LSPI, it is open deck architecture of an engine. That architecture is really not good for such hp per 1ltr of displacement. BMW for example never wanted to bump radically hp in its 3.0 ltr engines as they are open deck. When they developed S55 engine for M3/4 F30 generation, they went back and changed the block. New BMW B generation engines are closed deck bcs. they are modular, and they will have versions running 500+hp from factory. So, Focus ST issue is actually much bigger than LSPI.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Low calcium oil is band aid to LSPI issue. You are paying attention on oils here in the US. However in Europe, all vehicles, gasoline or diesels are running on oils that have low ZDDP levels. For example in the US BMW is still using LL01 in its gasoline engines, but in EU they are using LL04 since 2009, yet they do not have LSPI issues. Only known LSPI issue in Euro engines was first generation 1.4 turbo/compressor engine in VW. But VW resolved that quickly.
However, you have to take into consideration that European manufacturers are way ahead in so called "downsizing" game than American or Asian companies.
Also, 2.0 ltr engines are not as prone to LSPI. LSPI is primarily problem in engines 1.6ltr and lower displacement. 2.oltr engine in 2020 that has LSPI issue is poor engineering, there is no way around that. Personally, your choice of oil is good as Mobil1 0W40 FS is almost 0W30 oil. It is very light W40 oil.
I think you're on to something. In the ford community LSPI is almost unspoken of, though it is feared. For example on the focus St forums it's the bogeyman but the common factor for blown engines is aftermarket tunes. If I remember correctly, GM developed their Dexos tests due to the 1.6L ecotec blowing up. The Ecoboost is better platform in that regard. Heck, Ford specs semi-synth in-house Motorcraft for their EcoBoosts
Both Ford and GM have some know-how from their European brands. So, both have more experience with turbo applications than Asian manufacturers where LSPI is common in some brands. Also, Focus ST issue is not LSPI, it is open deck architecture of an engine. That architecture is really not good for such hp per 1ltr of displacement. BMW for example never wanted to bump radically hp in its 3.0 ltr engines as they are open deck. When they developed S55 engine for M3/4 F30 generation, they went back and changed the block. New BMW B generation engines are closed deck bcs. they are modular, and they will have versions running 500+hp from factory. So, Focus ST issue is actually much bigger than LSPI.
Originally Posted by edyvw
.
However, you have to take into consideration that European manufacturers are way ahead in so called "downsizing" game than American or Asian companies.
EcoBoosts
Both Ford and GM have some know-how from their European brands. So, both have more experience with turbo applications than Asian manufacturers where LSPI is common in some brands. [/quote]
"Asians" also "bought" those expiriences....topic is from 2015 btw
https://www.bmwblog.com/2015/11/14/hyundai-i30-n-to-spawn-new-division-run-by-former-bmw-m-boss/
.
However, you have to take into consideration that European manufacturers are way ahead in so called "downsizing" game than American or Asian companies.
EcoBoosts
Both Ford and GM have some know-how from their European brands. So, both have more experience with turbo applications than Asian manufacturers where LSPI is common in some brands. [/quote]
"Asians" also "bought" those expiriences....topic is from 2015 btw
https://www.bmwblog.com/2015/11/14/hyundai-i30-n-to-spawn-new-division-run-by-former-bmw-m-boss/
Originally Posted by Kamele0N
Originally Posted by edyvw
.
However, you have to take into consideration that European manufacturers are way ahead in so called "downsizing" game than American or Asian companies.
EcoBoosts
Originally Posted by edyvw
Ford and GM have some know-how from their European brands. So, both have more experience with turbo applications than Asian manufacturers where LSPI is common in some brands.
"Asians" also "bought" those expiriences....topic is from 2015 btw
https://www.bmwblog.com/2015/11/14/hyundai-i30-n-to-spawn-new-division-run-by-former-bmw-m-boss/
Originally Posted by edyvw
.
However, you have to take into consideration that European manufacturers are way ahead in so called "downsizing" game than American or Asian companies.
EcoBoosts
Originally Posted by edyvw
Ford and GM have some know-how from their European brands. So, both have more experience with turbo applications than Asian manufacturers where LSPI is common in some brands.
"Asians" also "bought" those expiriences....topic is from 2015 btw
https://www.bmwblog.com/2015/11/14/hyundai-i30-n-to-spawn-new-division-run-by-former-bmw-m-boss/
Originally Posted by Kamele0N
Originally Posted by edyvw
.
However, you have to take into consideration that European manufacturers are way ahead in so called "downsizing" game than American or Asian companies.
EcoBoosts
Both Ford and GM have some know-how from their European brands. So, both have more experience with turbo applications than Asian manufacturers where LSPI is common in some brands.
"Asians" also "bought" those expiriences....topic is from 2015 btw
https://www.bmwblog.com/2015/11/14/hyundai-i30-n-to-spawn-new-division-run-by-former-bmw-m-boss/
[/quote]
Not really. When one or several persons are poached it matters, but they are not bringing institutional knowledge. Institutional knowledge is not one or few people. Poaching engineers is nothing new, and it could work great if other parts are positioned properly. For example BMW E30 was fantastic idea, had an engines, gearboxes etc. but BMW could not get what it wanted in suspension department. They poached engineers from Ford in Europe and they helped them solved that issue. It works if you are targeting one piece of the puzzle. Problem is puzzle to be resolved you need strong institutional knowledge, culture etc.
Originally Posted by edyvw
.
However, you have to take into consideration that European manufacturers are way ahead in so called "downsizing" game than American or Asian companies.
EcoBoosts
Both Ford and GM have some know-how from their European brands. So, both have more experience with turbo applications than Asian manufacturers where LSPI is common in some brands.
"Asians" also "bought" those expiriences....topic is from 2015 btw
https://www.bmwblog.com/2015/11/14/hyundai-i30-n-to-spawn-new-division-run-by-former-bmw-m-boss/
[/quote]
Not really. When one or several persons are poached it matters, but they are not bringing institutional knowledge. Institutional knowledge is not one or few people. Poaching engineers is nothing new, and it could work great if other parts are positioned properly. For example BMW E30 was fantastic idea, had an engines, gearboxes etc. but BMW could not get what it wanted in suspension department. They poached engineers from Ford in Europe and they helped them solved that issue. It works if you are targeting one piece of the puzzle. Problem is puzzle to be resolved you need strong institutional knowledge, culture etc.
Originally Posted by MrStamper
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Tell that to my engine that used VW 502.00 (ACEA B3/B4) oil for 100,000 miles that died of piston skirt damage from LPSI.
Were you boosting regularly in the low rpm range?
Of course. It has a small turbo, which the max torque is at 1900 rpms, so of course it's on boost in the low rpm range.
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Tell that to my engine that used VW 502.00 (ACEA B3/B4) oil for 100,000 miles that died of piston skirt damage from LPSI.
Were you boosting regularly in the low rpm range?
Of course. It has a small turbo, which the max torque is at 1900 rpms, so of course it's on boost in the low rpm range.
Originally Posted by SR5
In Australia it's very common for our oils to carry both American API specs and Euro ACEA specs, for example I have a jug of full-synthetic Castrol Magnatec 5W30 and it's rated both API SN and ACEA A3/B4.
ZDDP is a very good additive
- it reduces LSPI events to protect the engine
- it's an anti-oxidant that protects the oils itself for longer oil life and OCI
- it's an anti-wear agent that protects the metal of the engine when the oil film breaks down
I think the Euro OEM level of around 1000 ppm is spot on for most applications.
Sure the Phos in it can damage exhaust cats in an oil burning car, yet Europe has been running this level of ZDDP for decades without issue.
But what your forgetting is that the current and newer Euro 5/6 standards are now requiring Lower Pho's and SA as that also damages the CATs and leaves higher valve deposits. So yes, in the Full SAPS Euro blends, the CA is offset by ZDDP...
The OP is better served by the Mobil EP in that particular engine. EP also counteracts LSPI if my memory serves me correct. Is that engine DFI & PFI?
Actually doesn't all Mobil Synthetic blends?
In Australia it's very common for our oils to carry both American API specs and Euro ACEA specs, for example I have a jug of full-synthetic Castrol Magnatec 5W30 and it's rated both API SN and ACEA A3/B4.
ZDDP is a very good additive
- it reduces LSPI events to protect the engine
- it's an anti-oxidant that protects the oils itself for longer oil life and OCI
- it's an anti-wear agent that protects the metal of the engine when the oil film breaks down
I think the Euro OEM level of around 1000 ppm is spot on for most applications.
Sure the Phos in it can damage exhaust cats in an oil burning car, yet Europe has been running this level of ZDDP for decades without issue.
But what your forgetting is that the current and newer Euro 5/6 standards are now requiring Lower Pho's and SA as that also damages the CATs and leaves higher valve deposits. So yes, in the Full SAPS Euro blends, the CA is offset by ZDDP...
The OP is better served by the Mobil EP in that particular engine. EP also counteracts LSPI if my memory serves me correct. Is that engine DFI & PFI?
Actually doesn't all Mobil Synthetic blends?
