Is Mobil 1 0W-20 too thin?

[Thatwouldbegreat]

Even though I'm a fan of Redline and Mobil 1, I'm wondering if Mobil 1 0W-20 is the best oil for our 2004 Element? Mobil 1 0W-20 may not be the perfect oil. since it has a HTHS of 2.65 it may not be best for high temps and hard driving over long steep mountain passes. I may have to rethink Mobil 1 0W-20 in the 2004 Element, I'll wait until the first Used Oil Analysis comes in. Maybe, I'll have to mix 3qts Mobil 1, 0W-20 (HTHS 2.65) (cSt 8.4 @100 C ) and 1qt Mobil 1, 0W-40 (HTHS 3.6)(cSt 14.3 @100 C ) ? That should equal HTHS of 2.86 and a (cSt 9.875 @100 C ) This would make it a 0W-20 near the very top of the 20 weight range for viscosity and bring the HTHS over 2.8. Or, maybe I should just go with Redline 5W-20 HTHS 3.3 (cSt 9.1 @100 C ) ? http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAUSENPVLMOMobil1_0W-20.asp http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_0W-40.asp http://redlineoil.com/pdf/4.pdf ============= MC 5W-20 is looking better. http://motorcraft.com/standard.asp?T=2&M=44&PageID=74 SAE 5W-20 Premium Synthetic Blend Motor Oil Motorcraft® motor oil. Motorcraft® Quality Motorcraft® 5W-20 is a premium motor oil blended using synthetic and mineral oil base stocks manufactured via a process called “hydrocracking”. This process rearranges the molecules, freeing them of impurities and making them more durable and resistant to breakdown. Motorcraft® 5W-20 dramatically outperforms and outprotects conventional motor oils. Specially tailored additives are included to: - Reduce friction - Minimize engine deposits and wear - Protect against high temperature oxidation and low temperature thickening, rust, corrosion and foaming SAE Grade 5W-20 API Service SJ / EC Gravity, ºAPI 35.0 Specific Gravity, @ 60ºF (15.5ºC) 0.852 Density, lb/gal 7.10 Flash Point, COC, ºF(ºC) 365(185) Viscosity: cSt @ 40ºC 49 cSt @ 100ºC 8.8 Viscosity Index 161 HT/HS Viscosity, cP @ 150ºC 2.65 Pour Point, ºF(ºC) -49 (-45) Sulfated Ash, Wt. % 0.94 Total Base Number (TBN) 7.5 ASTM Color 4.0

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

I thought that some of these posts were a good read, and provided some convincing arguments in favor of 5W-20. http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-232592 "Flash Per the info provided on the analisis, you installed this fluid at 11,118 miles on the engine. The engine was still in the break-in period for a Triton engine and also is presently. Expect "normal" UOA's after 18,000 miles, not before. This formulation pretty much reflects Motorcrafts attempt to get the newer GF-4 spec oil on the street as this oil already hits the proposed spec. Overall, a great report and you can expect it to get better as the engine finally settles in. FWIW, Blackstone shows a virgin TBN at 6.5 per their analysis procedures. Interestingly, the early formulations did not employ moly as an additive. MC is using the moly dialkyldithiocarbamate as a barrier lube which is a clear liquid and is expensive to include for an average priced oil. MC also uses tin dialkyldithiophosphate as an AW/EP and anti-oxidant. Again, killer stuff for this price range oil. For those that still believe that the 5w-20 is for CAFE only, take a good look. The 5w-20's are here to stay and look for more engines to be speced using this oil. As technology keeps advancing, so do the products that we are able to buy for our equipment. Todays Gp II's are not the same as the Gp II's of just 5 years ago. MC's formulation of Gp II+ and Gp III is a winne --------------------- http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226887&page=2&pp=25 >>My, how the sheep have strayed. I guess we need to go over the 153-H spec again for those of you that missed it previously. Ford specs an oil goes BEYOND the requirements for a API SL/ ILSAC GF-3. So, for those of you using a Xw-30 or an Xw-30 in synthetic- keep reading. Ford requires EITHER a DOUBLE LENGTH, 160 hour, Sequence IIIF test or a DOUBLE LENGTH, 128 hour, Sequence IIIE test with a MAXIMUM viscosity increase of 200% compared to the normal 275% or 375%, respectively, in a SINGLE LENGTH test. Ford also limits the high temperature deposits in the TEOST MHT-4 test to 30 mg compared to the normal 45 mg for a single length test. Hopefully, you can understand that the oils meeting Fords spec are not only tested twice as long as other oils but the criteria to be in spec is smaller than a single lenght test. For those that are running a Xw-30 synthetic, does your oil meet these test requirements? No, it doesn't. Using the correct spec oil will result in a cleaner engine inside, run cooler, and provide MAXIMUM protection regardless of the environment. So you're not convinced yet- that's common. Lets talk about HT/HS which is why most folks want to run the thicker oils. HT/HS is the rating of the viscosity of an oil AT the bearings. The spec calls for a minimum HT/HS rating of 2.6 which most oils exceed. M1 is 2.65 at last info I have, which is the lowest. Redline would be the highest at 3.2* in this weight.The higher the better. Engineers agree that a HT/HS rating of 2.8 will result in average engine life. For a Triton engine that would be around 200,000 miles considering prudent maintenance. HT/HS tests are run at 302F. Does your engine run at 302F? Again, more evidence that these Xw-20 oils are far superior to any other oil, regardless of basestock or weight. In the end, it's your engine and most likely you are the one making the payments. If you want the best oil for your Triton engine, it is 5w-20 meeting Fords spec. All others may serve you okay, but why take the chance when the 5w-20's are superior and generally don't cost any more than common oil.<<< * or 3.29 or 3.4 depending on source >>To further state the case for the 5w-20's, most are synthetic blends. Most are GpII+, Gp III, and PAO basestocks. M1 would be a formula similiar to the old Tri Syn. When using these mixtures, you get the benefits of all of the different basestocks. You will pickup some linear flow from the PAO and the natural corrosion resistancy of the dinos. You get the purest of the dinos as well and some of the best VI's made. So why would you use an oil of lesser quality like a 5w-30?<< >>They had to look at any trade offs between engine life and CAFE. At the start of the proposed xw-20 spec, it really wasn't working as good as expected as engine life was barely going to be 150,000 miles averagely.Oil basestocks have improved, VI's are higher today, newer anti-wear agents and EP additives have been developed, some incredible fatty acid esters are available, all are contributing to the further success of the xw-20, 153-H oils. Let me share an industry secret- oil changes as you know them- will be history. We have seen several systems that show significant promise in regards to 100,000 mile oil changes. The one I like the most has a fluid, ester based, that furnishes fluid to the engine, transmission, and axles. It has what would appear to be a 1 gallon oil filter. This "filter" has acid absorbing agents in the media, has time release additive package which replenishes the additives, filters to 3 microns to remove particles, and works as a cooler. The viscosity of the fluid is suppose to be in the 20w range at temp. The Triton engines are being designed to be the first to offer this new technology. Just think, you don't have to change the oil for 100,000 miles. And one fluid change handles the engine, tranny and axles. Are you aware that the Triton engines produce 0 lead in analysis? Thats because all lead components have been removed from the engine and accompanying bearings. Have you checked the oil pressure spec for a new Triton engine? Might want to take a look at that. The Triton engines are way ahead of any other engine on the market as it will be a leader in tomorrows technology. The adventure is only beginning.<<

 

[Gene K]

How about a 50/50 mix of 0W-20 and 10W-30. Readily available and should be a 5W-20 that is right around 9.2 @ 100ºC Gene

 

[427Z06]

As long as we're into quotes: "Mobil 1 with SuperSyn 0W-20 - EXCEEDS - API SL/CF, ILSAC GF-3, and the performance requirements Ford WSS-M2C-153H specification." From Mobil1 site Don't Just Take Our Word For It Mobil 1® comes as standard equipment in some of the finest production vehicles you can buy. It's "factory fill" in Chevrolet Corvette, all Porsches, Mercedes-Benz AMG models, Dodge Viper, Ford Mustang Cobra R and all Aston Martin cars. Here are some remarks from some of the top engineers and executives at these renowned manufacturers. "Every car produced in the factory in Stuttgart gets its first oil from Mobil 1. And that means that all our cars and engines are developed with that product." – Herbert Ampferer, Director, Porsche Motorsports "Mobil 1 is the only oil we use for our engines as the first filling. And then we put the sticker in the engine compartment just to make sure that people know what's in their engines." – Domingos Piedade, Managing Director, Mercedes-Benz AMG "Based upon the results we saw several years ago in endurance racing with Team Shelby, we felt Mobil 1 could do the job in the Viper, Dodge's highest-performance sports car." – Charlie Brown III, Viper Engine Supervisor, DaimlerChrysler Corporation MC 5w20 is a good oil at a great price, but I doubt it's better than everything else that's out there. As far as your Element, I think that 2.4L will do well on the M1 0w20. If you don't mind shorter change intervals, the MC 5w20 will probably do well too. If you run the snot out of it and want more protection, do a UOA and see where you're at first. And then adjust accordingly.

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

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Originally posted by Gene K: How about a 50/50 mix of 0W-20 and 10W-30. Readily available and should be a 5W-20 that is right around 9.2 @ 100ºC Gene

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That's not a bad idea either! I was also thinking about a 3 to 1 , or 4 to 1 , mix of Mobil 1 0W-20 and Mobil 1 5W-40 SUV I've read that the Mobil 1 5W-40 SUV* contains an Exxon developed ester that makes it one of the best oils on the shelf right now. *( identical or similar to Delvac 1 5W-40 ? )

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

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Originally posted by 427Z06: As long as we're into quotes: From Mobil1 site Don't Just Take Our Word For It Mobil 1® comes as standard equipment in some of the finest production vehicles you can buy. It's "factory fill" in Chevrolet Corvette, all Porsches, Mercedes-Benz AMG models, Dodge Viper, Ford Mustang Cobra R and all Aston Martin cars. Here are some remarks from some of the top engineers and executives at these renowned manufacturers. MC 5w20 is a good oil at a great price, but I doubt it's better than everything else that's out there. As far as your Element, I think that 2.4L will do well on the M1 0w20. If you don't mind shorter change intervals, the MC 5w20 will probably do well too. If you run the snot out of it and want more protection, do a UOA and see where you're at first. And then adjust accordingly.

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Good advice! I'll wait for the first UOA at 11K and 7K OCI and see how it looks. I'm sure the Mobil 1 0W-20 is good oil, just not sure whether I need 'great oil' for my area. If there's 'normal' operation (which few people drive) and 'severe' operation ( which describes most people's driving experience )... then maybe there should be 'extreme' ( which describes my driving experience, and I think many others ) ----------- The factory fill argument means little to me, since Dex Cool is 'Factory Fill' and I think its a product with too many failure modes and maintenance problems.