Is M1 0W40 Still the King of Euro?

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: buster
The terminology Mobil uses via their webpage is also different than the other oils "ultra high performance synthetic basestocks"
I'd bet this oil uses a significant amount of some exotic Group V base oils. Probably POE.

What part of catalytic-dewaxed-light-paraffinic-Unicorn-oil do you not understand?????
(Actually, I don't understand any of it, unless it cures rashes, so I'm lost.)
Anyway, looks like it MIGHT be GroupII+, and around 1/3 is high.
Quote:
CATALYTIC DEWAXED LIGHT PARAFFINIC OIL - CAS 64742-71-8 30-40%

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I would call the given oil's CAS # a Group II+ (a highly refined paraffinc) but there is no indication that this base oil is a Visom Group III oil, since most CAS's for Group III usually carry a different CAS number.

 

[Leonardo629]

Actually it's around $16.82 for the 5qt after the $12 rebate.

My SBUX venti caramel macchiato costs more LOL.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
ExMachine - you said this;

Quote:

What part of catalytic-dewaxed-light-paraffinic-Unicorn-oil do you not understand?????
(Actually, I don't understand any of it, unless it cures rashes, so I'm lost.)
Anyway, looks like it MIGHT be GroupII+, and around 1/3 is high.


Being rude to a highly respected long term contributor - buster - does you no favours in my opinion!

You are a relatively new BITOG member and you could at least contribute courtesy - otherwise you could consider packing your bags and moving on........

 

[buster]

Per Japan MSDS:
1-DECENE, HOMOPOLYMER HYDROGENATE 30 - < 40%
ORGANO MOLY-SULFUR COMPLEX 0.1 - < 1%
POLYOLEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE 1 - < 5%

Per US MSDS
CATALYTIC DEWAXED LIGHT PARAFFINIC OIL (PETROLEUM) 30 - < 40%
POLYOLEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE 1 - < 5% H413


Of note:
Quote:
As per paragraph (i) of 29 CFR 1910.1200, formulation is considered a trade secret and specific chemical identity and exact percentage (concentration) of composition may have been withheld.


If I had to guess this oil contains a good % of Group V base oils. It's definitely a blend of "ultra" high end base oils.

 

[ExMachina]

Hi, Doog Hillary- you said this;
Quote:

you could consider packing your bags and moving on........

Being rude to a member using humor on a public (i.e., doesn't belong to YOU) forum, as I did, and buster knows it, is kind of clueless of you. Grow a sense of humor and stop claiming ownership of the internet, or don't read or post here. Get grumpy elsewhere.

Now do you have anything to contribute to the subject matter or do you just continue to troll?

 

[JOD]

I think the title of this thread should be changed to "Mobil 1 0W40, Synthetic Blend!". That will shake things up a bit...

Maybe some BITOG members can file a class action lawsuit. I'm sensing some serious damages here: mental anguish, pain, loss of consortium etc.

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: JOD
I think the title of this thread should be changed to "Mobil 1 0W40, Synthetic Blend!". That will shake things up a bit...
Maybe some BITOG members can file a class action lawsuit. I'm sensing some serious damages here: mental anguish, pain, loss of consortium etc.


Ha! True there. Thats why I was saying MolaKule can't be right in saying the new MSDS for M1 0w-40 mentions GroupII. No way M1 becomes a Synthetic Blend. GroupIII became accepted as "synth" years back with the Castrol lawsuit, yet I seriously doubt GroupII could be labelled synth. Very confusing to me.

 

[edyvw]

King of Euro?
I used M1 0W40 exhaustively, and engine always sounded better with Castrol 0W30 (that I used until M1 started to sell in 5qt jugs) and with Castrol 0W40 that I use now. M1 0W4 was "king" because they offered lowest possible price in Wal Mart. Cold cranking that is on par with average 5W40 oils, noise at higher rpm's (no idea why only with M1) does not separate it from others. While my UOA analysis showed to be very stout, TBN retention was abysmal!
The trick is in pricing, that is all.

 

[Garak]

Pricing, and availability. The GC varieties are no slouch, either. The M1 0w-40 and GC 0w-30 were pretty much the only Euro lubes readily available up here for a long time, and it's still much the case, with the Castrol 0w-40 tossed in, now. Actually, in smaller parts stores, GC 0w-30 was and is easier to find than M1 0w-40 up here, simply because Wakefield Canada doesn't let any grass grow under their feet.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
King of Euro?
I used M1 0W40 exhaustively, and engine always sounded better with Castrol 0W30 (that I used until M1 started to sell in 5qt jugs) and with Castrol 0W40 that I use now.


Subjective, just like a "butt dyno", not proof of anything.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
M1 0W4 was "king" because they offered lowest possible price in Wal Mart.


One of its advantages, yes.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Cold cranking that is on par with average 5W40 oils,


That's utter tripe. If it was on par with a 5w-40, it would be labelled as such. So either you don't understand the parameters of how CCS and MRV are measured or you are just trolling at this point.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
noise at higher rpm's (no idea why only with M1) does not separate it from others.


Another personal anecdote.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
While my UOA analysis showed to be very stout, TBN retention was abysmal!
The trick is in pricing, that is all.


The "trick" is that it is a heavily certified product that is readily available and priced reasonably. TBN retention is generally excellent with it, but this is in line with all your other "personal experiences" with the product so I am hardly surprised

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: buster
Per Japan MSDS:
1-DECENE, HOMOPOLYMER HYDROGENATE 30 - < 40%
ORGANO MOLY-SULFUR COMPLEX 0.1 - < 1%
POLYOLEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE 1 - < 5%

Per US MSDS
CATALYTIC DEWAXED LIGHT PARAFFINIC OIL (PETROLEUM) 30 - < 40%
POLYOLEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE 1 - < 5% H413


Of note:
Quote:
As per paragraph (i) of 29 CFR 1910.1200, formulation is considered a trade secret and specific chemical identity and exact percentage (concentration) of composition may have been withheld.


If I had to guess this oil contains a good % of Group V base oils. It's definitely a blend of "ultra" high end base oils.



Quoting myself here:

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
The German MSDS (not updated, still from November 2014) shows:

Quote:
Dec-1-ene, homopolymer, hydrogenated Dec-1-ene, oligomers, hydrogenated CAS 68037-01-4 50-60%


Which is PAO.

The Canadian MSDS is, as usual, useless

What is the date on the Japanese MSDS?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Hi, Doog Hillary- you said this;
Quote:

you could consider packing your bags and moving on........

Being rude to a member using humor on a public (i.e., doesn't belong to YOU) forum, as I did, and buster knows it, is kind of clueless of you. Grow a sense of humor and stop claiming ownership of the internet, or don't read or post here. Get grumpy elsewhere.

Now do you have anything to contribute to the subject matter or do you just continue to troll?


Troll? I suggest reading some of Doug's other posts, he has been an extensive contributor and a wealth of knowledge since the board was in its infancy.

You can start by reading his article on Used Oil Analysis featured on the main page of this site if you like:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis/

Perhaps Doug simply didn't find the humour in your post?

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Hi, Doog Hillary- you said this;
Quote:

you could consider packing your bags and moving on........

Being rude to a member using humor on a public (i.e., doesn't belong to YOU) forum, as I did, and buster knows it, is kind of clueless of you. Grow a sense of humor and stop claiming ownership of the internet, or don't read or post here. Get grumpy elsewhere.

Now do you have anything to contribute to the subject matter or do you just continue to troll?


Troll? I suggest reading some of Doug's other posts, he has been an extensive contributor and a wealth of knowledge since the board was in its infancy.

You can start by reading his article on Used Oil Analysis featured on the main page of this site if you like:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis/

Perhaps Doug simply didn't find the humour in your post?

I agree. The last person ExMachina wants to pick to fight with is Doug Hillary. Doug is one the best contributors to this site.

 

[Leonardo629]

Overkill,

Like I posted before, UK has a MSDS dated 18 May 2015, which contains the wording for PAO @ 50 - < 60%.

So, naturally I want to assume M1 0W40 is majority PAO...I mean that's a lot.

All data from UK MSDS (PAO %)
Everything dates back to UK May 2015, except MSDS of 0W20, which is from USA March 2015.

0W20 30 - < 40%
0W40 50 - < 60% **King of Euro in Euro, maybe
5W20 20 - < 30%
5W30 20 - < 30%
5W40 50 - < 60%
5W50 10 - < 20%
10W30 10 - < 20%
15W50 10 - < 20%

UK M1 0W40 --> http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/IntApps/psims/Download.aspx?ID=73507

 

[Leonardo629]

I found this info slides on PAO

http://utsrus.com/documents/seminary_doklady/exxon_mobil_pao.pdf

 

[buster]

We can only assume. We do know that M1 0w40 is a global formulation meaning the formulation is the same everywhere in the world.

I definitely believe M1 0w40 is IV/V blend. And probably uses the higher end PAO's.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: edyvw
King of Euro?
I used M1 0W40 exhaustively, and engine always sounded better with Castrol 0W30 (that I used until M1 started to sell in 5qt jugs) and with Castrol 0W40 that I use now.


Subjective, just like a "butt dyno", not proof of anything.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
M1 0W4 was "king" because they offered lowest possible price in Wal Mart.


One of its advantages, yes.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Cold cranking that is on par with average 5W40 oils,


That's utter tripe. If it was on par with a 5w-40, it would be labelled as such. So either you don't understand the parameters of how CCS and MRV are measured or you are just trolling at this point.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
noise at higher rpm's (no idea why only with M1) does not separate it from others.


Another personal anecdote.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
While my UOA analysis showed to be very stout, TBN retention was abysmal!
The trick is in pricing, that is all.


The "trick" is that it is a heavily certified product that is readily available and priced reasonably. TBN retention is generally excellent with it, but this is in line with all your other "personal experiences" with the product so I am hardly surprised

I said numerous times before that M1 0W40 is good oil. King is definitely not!
Meets a lot of specs? So does Castrol 0W40, Pentosin 5W40, Motul X-Cess 5W40 etc, etc.
Cold cranking? While I understand numbers, I also understand what my engine is telling me at -20 degrees. With Castrol 0W30 or 0W40 I always have nice smooth start. M1 0W40 always reminds me that car has a thing called: camshafts. Never noticed difference between M1 0W40 and Pentosin 5W40 when it comes to cold start. But noticed huge difference between those oils and Castrol 0W30 and 0W40 in very cold temperatures.
Sound n higher rpms? Yes, with M1 is there.
So, is it scientific? No. But I am one of those people that like to listen what engine has to say.
Is M1 bad oil? Absolutely not. If I did not have option to get Castrol 0W40, would I use M1 0W40? Absolutely!
But IMHO, Castrol 0W40 in better suited for my car and my needs (starting car on -20.-30 at 12,000ft).

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: edyvw

I said numerous times before that M1 0W40 is good oil. King is definitely not!


In your OPINION.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Meets a lot of specs? So does Castrol 0W40, Pentosin 5W40, Motul X-Cess 5W40 etc, etc.


The Castrol product meets basically all the same specs and is almost as equally available. That's why I've mentioned it in the thread several times already. However, the other two products are not the same grade and are subsequently irrelevant.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Cold cranking? While I understand numbers, I also understand what my engine is telling me at -20 degrees. With Castrol 0W30 or 0W40 I always have nice smooth start. M1 0W40 always reminds me that car has a thing called: camshafts. Never noticed difference between M1 0W40 and Pentosin 5W40 when it comes to cold start. But noticed huge difference between those oils and Castrol 0W30 and 0W40 in very cold temperatures.


I really don't think you do. I've used Mobil 1 0w-40 in my M5 (and it had twice the number of cams) when it was -30C, that's the CCS limit for the 5w-xx designation, let that sink in for a second. The CCS (cold cranking simulator) limit for a 0w-xx oil is -35C and you are telling me you notice a difference at -20C, 15C ABOVE where the oil is tested? Come on, even Stevie Wonder could see that elephant in the room.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Sound n higher rpms? Yes, with M1 is there.


Anecdote. I had no sound, in a 400HP car with 11:1 compression, with it, PU 5w-40, or the OEM BMW 5w-30. Sound means nothing unless somebody has specifically solicited your opinion on that matter, which they haven't. This thread is a general discussion.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
So, is it scientific? No.


You've got that right.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
But I am one of those people that like to listen what engine has to say.


Seriously? The oil that is good enough for Mercedes and Porsche in the 24hrs of LeMans isn't good enough for your car? What does your engine "say" about that?

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Is M1 bad oil? Absolutely not. If I did not have option to get Castrol 0W40, would I use M1 0W40? Absolutely!
But IMHO, Castrol 0W40 in better suited for my car and my needs (starting car on -20.-30 at 12,000ft).


Both are equally suited because they have the same bloody approvals, the difference is that Mobil actually provides their MRV numbers, Castrol doesn't. But both are required to be within the limits.

Basically, personally you PREFER Castrol, and that's fine. I PREFER Mobil. They are both excellent products and equally capable. Generally, the Mobil product can be had cheaper and is more available. It has BETTER availability. I consider both products interchangeable and while my preference is Mobil, I make no claims about the Castrol product being inferior in any way.

 

[Benito]

If I didn't have a stash to use up, I'd definitely want to get the latest M1 to compare to the Castrol 0w40 which is my current favorite.

As it is, the next oil change will be with the older SN M1, but won't be done for some time.

 

[camrydriver111]