is it ok to M 1 Euro 0w40 in 2009 Lexus RX350 with 207,000 miles

[OVERKILL]

Em, I've seen the cat on my brother's Porches, so yeah I know they have cats. Just like 911's and Corollas both have engines that are exactly the same! Right?!

Porsche catalytic converters are $2500 to $4000 for USED ones! It's a twin cat setup that looks nothing like what goes on a pedestrian Toyota/Lexus rig. I'm pretty sure Porsche OEM cats are designed for far higher rigors and tolerate higher additives required for MB/VW/A40 ACEA A3, etc., like zinc......

OK, so what about the catalysts on a 328i or any other pedestrian bimmer that called for full-SAPS LL-01 oils? FCA didn't change the cats on the SRT's when they went from full-SAPS M1 0W-40 to the Pennzoil GF-5 style SRT 0W-40.

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

OK, so what about the catalysts on a 328i or any other pedestrian bimmer that called for full-SAPS LL-01 oils? FCA didn't change the cats on the SRT's when they went from full-SAPS M1 0W-40 to the Pennzoil GF-5 style SRT 0W-40.

IDK do you have the design spec's for either? If it's not an issue why did they cut zinc levels from SM on?

 

[OVERKILL]

IDK do you have the design spec's for either? If it's not an issue why did they cut zinc levels from SM on?

Just a theory, but this tends to align (the timing of the transition from SL to SM) with the shift to thinner oils and lower tension rings in the seemingly endless quest for fuel economy gains to satisfy CAFE. This may have resulted in more consumption, which in turn required more attention to be given to the oil that was being burned.

Remember, xW-40 oils were exempt from these limits, that's why oils like M1 0W-40, Castrol Edge 0W-40...etc were allowed to continue with their higher additive levels while still being SM, SN...etc.

Also, it wasn't zinc that was cut, it was phosphorous. Phosphorous is the AW additive that, in large quantities, can damage a catalyst (poisoning it). Zinc is included to basically neutralize the less desirable characteristics of the phosphorous. @RDY4WAR does a rather amusing job explaining it:

Zinc doesn't have much of an anti-wear role. It's essentially just the neutralizing carrier for the molecule. The phosphorus and sulfur provide the anti-wear function with the S reacting with iron surfaces to form barriers of ferrous sulfide and the P reacting to heat and pressure to form tribofilms of polyphosphate "glass". The Zn is sitting the corner eating paste at this point, it's job over with. If you were to analyze tribofilms created by ZDDP, you'd find Zn there but just guilty by association.

ZDDP starts out as phosphorus pentasulfide which is reacted with various alcohols to form dialkyl-dithio-phosphoric acid. This is the anti-wear molecule (notice no Zn present) but it's unstable and too acidic in this form to be used in lubricants. Therefore, it's neutralized (to an extent depending on the type of ZDDP) with zinc oxide to form zinc dialkyl-dithio-phosphate (ZDDP).

Edit to add, here's the left catalyst for a 2012 through to 2018 Dodge Charger. You'll note it is spec'd for both the 6.4L, which, up until around 2014/2015, spec'd the Full-SAPS M1 0W-40 as the required oil, and the 5.7L, which didn't.

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

Okay interesting and the phosphorous is a good point. and as I've said there probably isn't an issue especially with an 07'.

Probably more likely to get stolen than poisoned here. It's interesting that one of the first thing that shows on Google searches for cats is their scrap value.

But I'd have to wonder if higher zinc content plating would actually help with fuel economy? I have no idea as it seems it can go either way...

 

[shortyb]

Zinc is great for an old prostate.








Oops, wrong thread .

 

[edyvw]

Sorry but I think you really have no idea what you are talking about here. Masking speculation as fact isn't fact.....

I am not making speculation. I own Land Cruiser in Europe and it shares some emissions parts with BMW X5, VW Touareg, MB ML and GL diesels. Actually, they have same parts numbers. What do you think, that companies always use everything specific to that model? Why would BMW have different DEF heater from VW or Toyota?
I do know. You are making a lot of assumptions, and all of them are wrong.
On top of that you are spreading misinformation to people that come here. By now, you could read all you need to know about Mobil1 0W40, catalytic converters etc.

 

[Bullwinkle007]

Maybe, and as I've stated about five times now I doubt the OP will have any issues and if he did he got his money out of it (the exhaust) anyways. And I really like M1 0W-40 and would consider it for summer runs if I didn't have a DI.

I'm not saying it's going to happen often but it still is a consideration for the guy that has to run A40 approval oils in his Kia Rio because he's such a buttdyno bad a#%!..

I run it in my DI no issues at all, But I also clean my intake at every OCI with CRC valve cleaner

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

I run it in my DI no issues at all, But I also clean my intake at every OCI with CRC valve cleaner

I recommend STP maybe once a year. It's pricey but I think it's a bit more potent than CRC...

 

[ammolab]

Not sure why you're chiming in, but calm down with the caps. The vehicle still has a catalytic converter that was designed for decreased levels of zinc, phosphorus. So while it might not be an "issue" I agree, at 200K, it is still a factor especially if the OP is burning oil. Ask me what a plugged cat is like. And yes, there is a "correlation" or else we'd have 1500 ppm of zinc in modern SM/SN/SN+/SP oils. No?..

Zinc/phosphours danger to your cats is not “Plugging” but killing the ability of the cat to reduce emissions. The cat dies but flows exhaust well. A plugged cat may be the result of a missfire or rich mixture that over heats the matrix in the cat and melts it into an obstruction

 

[BigTimeTA]

vehicle is new to me. Runs very well no leaks anywhere. Yes, I'm changing all the fluids and filters and spark plugs. I have read here that this 0w40 can be used in most engines.
thanks for your thoughts

FS is a solid formula, I would pick it up first choice if I don't have to deal with a DI engine. Sometimes I just can't find ESP for my Mazda and use FS xW40 since it doesn't burn out a lot of oil anyway.

 

[TiGeo]

FS is a solid formula, I would pick it up first choice if I don't have to deal with a DI engine. Sometimes I just can't find ESP for my Mazda and use FS xW40 since it doesn't burn out a lot of oil anyway.

The concern about FS and DI is unfounded IMHO - plenty of DI engines running it without the carbon buildup issues that are often discussed. I've posted a video showing a VW with 10K miles running only the lower SAPS forumula (504) wtih plenty of carbon buildup and suffice to say I don't think it matters at all.

 

[BigTimeTA]

The concern about FS adn DI is unfounded IMHO - plenty of DI engines running it without the carbon buildup issues that are often discussed. I've posted a video showing a VW with 10K miles running only the lower SAPS forumula (504) wtih plenty of carbon buildup and suffice to say I don't thing it matters at all.

I'm already biased towards FS than ESP already. Did I need that nudge?
Yeah, just going by the book. But actually never had a problem using it at all. Oil pressure seems more stable with FS than ESP as well. Plenty of reasons to switch.

 

[OVERKILL]

Zinc/phosphours danger to your cats is not “Plugging” but killing the ability of the cat to reduce emissions. The cat dies but flows exhaust well. A plugged cat may be the result of a missfire or rich mixture that over heats the matrix in the cat and melts it into an obstruction

This is true, but this is only in the context of an engine where enough oil is being burned for the difference between 800ppm and 1,200ppm of phosphorous to make a difference, and, ultimately, you are still just delaying the inevitable, it will just take longer with the lower concentration.

I see it as more of a CYA for the cheaper oils that are on the bottom of the "meet the spec" range and are going to be consumed in higher quantities, especially if they are lighter, to get a car run on this stuff, through the emissions warranty period.

 

[Accent Abuser]

vehicle is new to me. Runs very well no leaks anywhere. Yes, I'm changing all the fluids and filters and spark plugs. I have read here that this 0w40 can be used in most engines.
thanks for your thoughts

Sounds good to me.

 

[dblshock]

Both my old Toyota's (180k, 190k) run this oil..I like it, at -25F my starters don't labor...I may skip this year's OCI with the M1 because I'll be protesting their skimpy $4 '22 rebate...plenty garage stock in lesser quality synthetics, we'll see.

 

[Torrid]

I run it in my DI no issues at all, But I also clean my intake at every OCI with CRC valve cleaner

I've been curious about doing this. Heard mixed comments on whether or not it was effective. With 35k miles on my EA888 I haven't seen any issues yet, but that doesn't mean much. According to most that have the worst carbon buildup is that driving style even plays a factor. I drive my GTI hard to be safe.

 

[fred9x]

Sure you can run it but why do this/what purpose is this serving is my question? I have an '08...just runs any run-o-the-mill 5W30 which would be more than adequate and likely a bit less cost.

The reason I want to use the Mobil 1 0w40 is only to enable me to keep just one viscosity on hand.

 

[NismoNVT]

If you have 0w40 lying around then I guess its fine. But if its an solution to a problem you dont have then why deviate from the oil type printed on the oil cap? At 200k miles will you notice any difference?

 

[TiGeo]

The reason I want to use the Mobil 1 0w40 is only to enable me to keep just one viscosity on hand.

Yeah I get that to some degree as I run 5W40/Euro oils in 3/5 of our vehicles and the other 2 one is 5W30 and one is 5W20. Both of those just run ST syn and next change next year I think I'll just do 5W30 in the Focus to make it easier.