I was at a Checker Auto Parts store recently and I just checked the price of a FRAM Extended Guard. It is eleven dollars! You can buy an Amsoil, Mobil 1, or K&N oil filter for that price! Even if the Extended Guard is a good filter, is it better than a Hastings or a Wix at about 5-6 dollars? Another thing I have found out is that a lot of filters that are supposed to be made by automakers are apparently actually made by filter makers such as FRAM, Purolator, etc. I own a Saturn SL2 and as far as I have been able to determine FRAM makes the Saturn oil filters. According to what I have been able to find out, FRAM is making filters for Honda. I wonder if the oil filters made by filter manufacturers for automakers are equal to the regular filters made by those companies or better? Does Honda demand a certain level of quality? Does Saturn?
Is FRAM improving any?
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if im paying 11 dollars for a filter, id rather get a mobil 1.
I don’t use Fram products and I am not a defender of them out of self interest. I’ve just been looking at this post disinterestedly and am seeing a frenzy of criticism that seems to me to be unwarranted. In social discourse anymore it has become commonplace to associate “sucks” with “what I don’t use or like”.
I just see some piling on going on here. I don’t think that it is all intellectually honest. I have a few comments on some of the language that has been used.
They are irrelevent.
They are hardly irrelevent [sic]. They dominate the market. There’s not a manufacturer in business that wouldn’t give an eye tooth to have the name recognition of Fram.
There's no reason to believe that the more expensive models compare well with similarly expensive filters from the competition.
There’s no reason not to. Filter performance and specifications are an inexact science with more unknowns than knowns. Even amongst the hardcore of us here, filter selection is often personal preference or habit, as much as it is informed decision.
Fram just plain sucks, they need to focus on quality rather than quantity.
Their board of directors probably categorically disagrees. They appear to have their focus just right. Their company is expanding and edging out the competition in all kind of markets. They’ve got many of the big box stores and a huge share of the OEM market. It is clear that quantity is working for them.
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Cardboard construction does not necessarily entail poor performance. It looks cheesy and flimsy, it flies in the face of what we imagine how a good filter should be built. But, by and large, it appears to work. It does not appear to be the case that Fram filters cause engine failures or lead to measurably-reduced engine longevity, in any numbers at all approaching statistical significance or even lore.
Now, please, don’t take any of this as personal attack. I just take a little umbrage at gratuitous criticism that may not be warranted. I’m trying to focus on the issues, not the person (or the company). I think that we can be a little more circumspect about this company and their products.
Regards to my friends here.
I just see some piling on going on here. I don’t think that it is all intellectually honest. I have a few comments on some of the language that has been used.
They are irrelevent.
They are hardly irrelevent [sic]. They dominate the market. There’s not a manufacturer in business that wouldn’t give an eye tooth to have the name recognition of Fram.
There's no reason to believe that the more expensive models compare well with similarly expensive filters from the competition.
There’s no reason not to. Filter performance and specifications are an inexact science with more unknowns than knowns. Even amongst the hardcore of us here, filter selection is often personal preference or habit, as much as it is informed decision.
Fram just plain sucks, they need to focus on quality rather than quantity.
Their board of directors probably categorically disagrees. They appear to have their focus just right. Their company is expanding and edging out the competition in all kind of markets. They’ve got many of the big box stores and a huge share of the OEM market. It is clear that quantity is working for them.
_________________________
Cardboard construction does not necessarily entail poor performance. It looks cheesy and flimsy, it flies in the face of what we imagine how a good filter should be built. But, by and large, it appears to work. It does not appear to be the case that Fram filters cause engine failures or lead to measurably-reduced engine longevity, in any numbers at all approaching statistical significance or even lore.
Now, please, don’t take any of this as personal attack. I just take a little umbrage at gratuitous criticism that may not be warranted. I’m trying to focus on the issues, not the person (or the company). I think that we can be a little more circumspect about this company and their products.
Regards to my friends here.
after this site, i too decided not to use fram.
to prove that fram sucks in my mind i ran auto rx for a week with a fram oil filter, and then found some particles of cardboard..turns out it was from the fram oil filter. changed it and the particles were gone...gee
to prove that fram sucks in my mind i ran auto rx for a week with a fram oil filter, and then found some particles of cardboard..turns out it was from the fram oil filter. changed it and the particles were gone...gee
Patman
Staff member
If I'm paying $11 for filters, I'd rather get two NAPA Golds.
Yes I am put off by posts like Fram sucks, but near as much as I am by the feeling of betrayal by a name I grew up trusting. Many of us take pride in giving our cars and trucks the best care we can. Fram has spent big bucks convincing us that good care comes in an orange box. So one day I start with my hacksaw and tape measure and look inside some used oil filters. Something Fram counts on us not doing. The cardboard end caps were not near the disappointment as the stingy filter area was. Name brands once meant something. There was a time when you could count on a name like Fram being worth the extra over no names like Super Tech. Now I find Super Tech has a much better product. I think we are all hurt by Fram's flimflam.
I don't see how their success in fooling the consumers should earn them anything except more scorn. There are many market leaders that have inferior products. DAP caulking is smeary and hard to work with. GE light bulbs flicker. Micro soft products are unfriendly except to viruses. I want to thank the others here that make me feel good about using Super Tech filters since I can't find the ACDelcos I need any more.
I don't see how their success in fooling the consumers should earn them anything except more scorn. There are many market leaders that have inferior products. DAP caulking is smeary and hard to work with. GE light bulbs flicker. Micro soft products are unfriendly except to viruses. I want to thank the others here that make me feel good about using Super Tech filters since I can't find the ACDelcos I need any more.
wow, 2 people make a reference to microsoft in this thread. being a microsoft certified systems engineer, its hard to restrain myself from commenting.
back on topic: the way i feel about fram or any company is that if they put out bad products and clean up their act in the future, i still wont do buisness with them. its my way of saying "you screwed me now i get to return the gesture"
thats why i dont buy fram, the quality isnt there. its the same reason i dont buy generic peanut butter. nothing is better than jiff.
to me, fram is generic. they are actually a brand name (and a huge one at that) but their quality is so lacking that i consider them to be generic.
back on topic: the way i feel about fram or any company is that if they put out bad products and clean up their act in the future, i still wont do buisness with them. its my way of saying "you screwed me now i get to return the gesture"
thats why i dont buy fram, the quality isnt there. its the same reason i dont buy generic peanut butter. nothing is better than jiff.
to me, fram is generic. they are actually a brand name (and a huge one at that) but their quality is so lacking that i consider them to be generic.
I really agree with what labman said. When I was young I always used FRAM oil filters and Pennzoil oil. When I had some problems with FRAM filters and also read the Oil Filter Study on the internet, I started to use other brands. But I had used FRAM for so long that it seems unnatural to reach for an oil filter that is not colored orange. When I was younger you could find good products in any decent auto parts store. It seems like you had to go out of your way to find any junk stuff. Now it seems to me that I have to go out of my way to find good stuff. What is going on here? I live in a small city near a larger city. There is exactly one auto parts store in that large city where I can find (sometimes I have to order if they don't have my filter in stock) Hastings oil filters. There is exactly one store (a bearing supply company) where I can find Wix oil filters. I have used Amsoil (which I have to order since I don't know of any Amsoil dealers locally), and I have used Mobil 1 but K-Mart does not seem to carry Mobil 1 anymore (to say nothing of the 10 bucks per oil filter). And don't think for a second that new cars may not have poor quality oil filters-the filter brand you may not think very highly of may be the same oil filter used on your brand new shiny car-it just has a different paint job on the can.
I've read how Fram's end caps and anti-drainback valve is inferior to other brands, but how about the filter element?
I don't understand brand loyalty or in sports why people are fans of certain teams I try to get the least screwed as I can but that doesn't always workout.
If you have done your homework, and find a certain brand is the best there is, or a good value for itsprice, then it makes good sense to stick with it. The more people you convert, the more likely it is that it will continue to be available at a reasonable price. Rewarding quality brands with loyalty encourages manufactures to produce quality products and support them. Unfortunately the homework to make intelligent choices may be very difficult. Along with some others here, I am bitter about my previous loyalty to Fram. I am afraid I was suckered into using an inferior product. Loyalty, including paying extra, to a quality product, once you find one, is one of the best ways of not getting screwed.
Originally posted by ryansride2017
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I've read how Fram's end caps and anti-drain back valve is inferior to other brands, but how about the filter element?
Fram claims its media is superior. Media does vary. I learned this doing technical support to a factory that needed to remove dust from air. Most filters do not work like a screen where their is a limited size range of openings and everything larger is stopped and everything smaller is passed. Instead fluid and particles work their way through deeper media. Such media does a much better job on the smaller particles as it fills up with the larger ones. What we called bag houses were automatically cleaned periodically by blasting compressed air back through. So as the oil leaks back through the anti drain valves, it may wash the abrasive particles back to the crank case.
I a0m skeptical the Fram media is enough better than the AC to make up for the factor of 3 I have found in the PF 1177 and PH 3950. A factor of 2 in favor of ST over PH. I don't feel I have enough hard data to make a good decision. Same on the end caps. When the supply of ST 3950's I am hoarding runs out, I will check some numbers like PF 1237 in place of the hard to find PF1177.
Now if somebody could assure me Pennzoil deserves my continued loyality.... At least they have returned to supporting the IRL. I dumped Bud years ago.
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