is "1-decene, trimer, hydrogenated" PAO?

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The purpose of the % of composition is to determine the hazard level. What you're saying - maybe not what you mean - is they can put 50-70% on the SDS to hide their proprietary details but it in fact contains (made up number) "96%". That 96% might push it into a higher hazard category (or might not) but by putting false data, "50-70%", the product appears less hazardous when it's not. No way they can do this. It may contain 50%, it may contain 70%, it may contain 60%, or the % might vary depending on the batch but within an acceptable range for the chemistry. It can't contain 71% or more in every single batch though.

Now, if they put 50-70% and accept the hazard rating that 70% gets them, but only put 12% in, that's their choice.
 
Originally Posted by bulwnkl
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Again No, it does not mean the finished oil actually contains 50-70% PAO and there is no requirement for it to contain 50-70% PAO...
...
Yes, the true percentages of components in the sold products can, do and are allowed to fall outside of the ranges stated in the MSDS/SDS. An MSDS/SDS will NOT state the exact percentages of a component or components.


That's not what OSHA appears to say here:
https://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3514.html

How do you reconcile your position with that document, particularly Section 3?



https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/29/1910.1200

Originally Posted by OSHA
Trade secrets.

(1) The chemical manufacturer, importer, or employer may withhold the specific chemical identity, including the chemical name, other specific identification of a hazardous chemical, or the exact percentage (concentration) of the substance in a mixture, from the safety data sheet, provided that:

(i) The claim that the information withheld is a trade secret can be supported;

(ii) Information contained in the safety data sheet concerning the properties and effects of the hazardous chemical is disclosed;

(iii) The safety data sheet indicates that the specific chemical identity and/or percentage of composition is being withheld as a trade secret; and,

(iv) The specific chemical identity and percentage is made available to health professionals, employees, and designated representatives in accordance with the applicable provisions of this paragraph (i).



What do YOU think OSHA is saying and please point to the specific item number, paragraph, etc.
 
You are misinterpreting that. It says the manufacturer "may withhold ... the exact percentage (concentration) of the substance in a mixture" but they also have to respect that "Information contained in the safety data sheet concerning the properties and effects of the hazardous chemical is disclosed". See my post above. Saying it contains "50-70%" is fine so long as the exact percentage is within that range. If the exact percentage is higher, the SDS and the hazard rating for the product is possibly not accurate now.
 
Read Appendix E:

Quote
Appendix E to § 1910.1200 - Definition of "Trade Secret" (Mandatory)
The following is a reprint of the Restatement of Torts section 757, comment b (1939):

b. Definition of trade secret. A trade secret may consist of any formula, pattern, device or compilation of information which is used in one's business, and which gives him an opportunity to obtain an advantage over competitors who do not know or use it. It may be a formula for a chemical compound, a process of manufacturing, treating or preserving materials, a pattern for a machine or other device, or a list of customers. It differs from other secret information in a business (see s759 of the Restatement of Torts which is not included in this Appendix) in that it is not simply information as to single or ephemeral events in the conduct of the business, as, for example, the amount or other terms of a secret bid for a contract or the salary of certain employees, or the security investments made or contemplated, or the date fixed for the announcement of a new policy or for bringing out a new model or the like. A trade secret is a process or device for continuous use in the operations of the business. Generally it relates to the production of goods, as, for example, a machine or formula for the production of an article. It may, however, relate to the sale of goods or to other operations in the business, such as a code for determining discounts, rebates or other concessions in a price list or catalogue, or a list of specialized customers, or a method of bookkeeping or other office management.

Secrecy. The subject matter of a trade secret must be secret. Matters of public knowledge or of general knowledge in an industry cannot be appropriated by one as his secret. Matters which are completely disclosed by the goods which one markets cannot be his secret. Substantially, a trade secret is known only in the particular business in which it is used. It is not requisite that only the proprietor of the business know it. He may, without losing his protection, communicate it to employees involved in its use. He may likewise communicate it to others pledged to secrecy. Others may also know of it independently, as, for example, when they have discovered the process or formula by independent invention and are keeping it secret. Nevertheless, a substantial element of secrecy must exist, so that, except by the use of improper means, there would be difficulty in acquiring the information. An exact definition of a trade secret is not possible. Some factors to be considered in determining whether given information is one's trade secret are: (1) The extent to which the information is known outside of his business; (2) the extent to which it is known by employees and others involved in his business; (3) the extent of measures taken by him to guard the secrecy of the information; (4) the value of the information to him and his competitors; (5) the amount of effort or money expended by him in developing the information; (6) the ease or difficulty with which the information could be properly acquired or duplicated by others.

Novelty and prior art. A trade secret may be a device or process which is patentable; but it need not be that. It may be a device or process which is clearly anticipated in the prior art or one which is merely a mechanical improvement that a good mechanic can make. Novelty and invention are not requisite for a trade secret as they are for patentability. These requirements are essential to patentability because a patent protects against unlicensed use of the patented device or process even by one who discovers it properly through independent research. The patent monopoly is a reward to the inventor. But such is not the case with a trade secret. Its protection is not based on a policy of rewarding or otherwise encouraging the development of secret processes or devices. The protection is merely against breach of faith and reprehensible means of learning another's secret. For this limited protection it is not appropriate to require also the kind of novelty and invention which is a requisite of patentability. The nature of the secret is, however, an important factor in determining the kind of relief that is appropriate against one who is subject to liability under the rule stated in this Section. Thus, if the secret consists of a device or process which is a novel invention, one who acquires the secret wrongfully is ordinarily enjoined from further use of it and is required to account for the profits derived from his past use. If, on the other hand, the secret consists of mechanical improvements that a good mechanic can make without resort to the secret, the wrongdoer's liability may be limited to damages, and an injunction against future use of the improvements made with the aid of the secret may be inappropriate.
 
I can only give answers to specific questions in the form or the way the questions are presented to me.

Trade Secrets may only have to be disclosed by specific request from health professionals or by an Assistant Secretary and only after a Non-Disclosure Agreement is signed.

Quote
Trade secrets.

(1) The chemical manufacturer, importer, or employer may withhold the specific chemical identity, including the chemical name, other specific identification of a hazardous chemical, or the exact percentage (concentration) of the substance in a mixture, from the safety data sheet, provided that:

(i) The claim that the information withheld is a trade secret can be supported;

(ii) Information contained in the safety data sheet concerning the properties and effects of the hazardous chemical is disclosed;

(iii) The safety data sheet indicates that the specific chemical identity and/or percentage of composition is being withheld as a trade secret; and,

(iv) The specific chemical identity and percentage is made available to health professionals, employees, and designated representatives in accordance with the applicable provisions of this paragraph (i).

(2) Where a treating physician or nurse determines that a medical emergency exists and the specific chemical identity and/or specific percentage of composition of a hazardous chemical is necessary for emergency or first-aid treatment, the chemical manufacturer, importer, or employer shall immediately disclose the specific chemical identity or percentage composition of a trade secret chemical to that treating physician or nurse, regardless of the existence of a written statement of need or a confidentiality agreement. The chemical manufacturer, importer, or employer may require a written statement of need and confidentiality agreement, in accordance with the provisions of paragraphs (i)(3) and (4) of this section, as soon as circumstances permit.

In non-emergency situations, a chemical manufacturer, importer, or employer shall, upon request, disclose a specific chemical identity or percentage composition, otherwise permitted to be withheld under paragraph (i)(1) of this section, to a health professional (i.e., physician, industrial hygienist, toxicologist, epidemiologist, or occupational health nurse) providing medical or other occupational health services to exposed employee(s), and to employees or designated representatives, if:

The request is in writing;

The request describes with reasonable detail one or more of the following occupational health needs for the information:

(A) To assess the hazards of the chemicals to which employees will be exposed;

(B) To conduct or assess sampling of the workplace atmosphere to determine employee exposure levels;

(C) To conduct pre-assignment or periodic medical surveillance of exposed employees;

(D) To provide medical treatment to exposed employees;

(E) To select or assess appropriate personal protective equipment for exposed employees;

(F) To design or assess engineering controls or other protective measures for exposed employees; and,

(G) To conduct studies to determine the health effects of exposure.

The request explains in detail why the disclosure of the specific chemical identity or percentage composition is essential and that, in lieu thereof, the disclosure of the following information to the health professional, employee, or designated representative, would not satisfy the purposes described in paragraph (i)(3)(ii) of this section:

(A) The properties and effects of the chemical;

(B) Measures for controlling workers' exposure to the chemical;

(C) Methods of monitoring and analyzing worker exposure to the chemical; and,

(D) Methods of diagnosing and treating harmful exposures to the chemical;

The request includes a description of the procedures to be used to maintain the confidentiality of the disclosed information; and,

(v) The health professional, and the employer or contractor of the services of the health professional (i.e., downstream employer, labor organization, or individual employee), employee, or designated representative, agree in a written confidentiality agreement that the health professional, employee, or designated representative, will not use the trade secret information for any purpose other than the health need(s) asserted and agree not to release the information under any circumstances other than to OSHA, as provided in paragraph (i)(6) of this section, except as authorized by the terms of the agreement or by the chemical manufacturer, importer, or employer.

(4) The confidentiality agreement authorized by paragraph (i)(3)(iv) of this section:

(i) May restrict the use of the information to the health purposes indicated in the written statement of need;

(ii) May provide for appropriate legal remedies in the event of a breach of the agreement, including stipulation of a reasonable pre-estimate of likely damages; and,

(iii) May not include requirements for the posting of a penalty bond.

(5) Nothing in this standard is meant to preclude the parties from pursuing non-contractual remedies to the extent permitted by law.

(6) If the health professional, employee, or designated representative receiving the trade secret information decides that there is a need to disclose it to OSHA, the chemical manufacturer, importer, or employer who provided the information shall be informed by the health professional, employee, or designated representative prior to, or at the same time as, such disclosure.

(7) If the chemical manufacturer, importer, or employer denies a written request for disclosure of a specific chemical identity or percentage composition, the denial must:

(i) Be provided to the health professional, employee, or designated representative, within thirty days of the request;

(ii) Be in writing;

(iii) Include evidence to support the claim that the specific chemical identity or percent of composition is a trade secret;

(iv) State the specific reasons why the request is being denied; and,

(v) Explain in detail how alternative information may satisfy the specific medical or occupational health need without revealing the trade secret.

(8) The health professional, employee, or designated representative whose request for information is denied under paragraph (i)(3) of this section may refer the request and the written denial of the request to OSHA for consideration.

(9) When a health professional, employee, or designated representative refers the denial to OSHA under paragraph (i)(8) of this section, OSHA shall consider the evidence to determine if:

(i) The chemical manufacturer, importer, or employer has supported the claim that the specific chemical identity or percentage composition is a trade secret;

(ii) The health professional, employee, or designated representative has supported the claim that there is a medical or occupational health need for the information; and,

(iii) The health professional, employee or designated representative has demonstrated adequate means to protect the confidentiality.

(10)

(i) If OSHA determines that the specific chemical identity or percentage composition requested under paragraph (i)(3) of this section is not a "bona fide" trade secret, or that it is a trade secret, but the requesting health professional, employee, or designated representative has a legitimate medical or occupational health need for the information, has executed a written confidentiality agreement, and has shown adequate means to protect the confidentiality of the information, the chemical manufacturer, importer, or employer will be subject to citation by OSHA.

(ii) If a chemical manufacturer, importer, or employer demonstrates to OSHA that the execution of a confidentiality agreement would not provide sufficient protection against the potential harm from the unauthorized disclosure of a trade secret, the Assistant Secretary may issue such orders or impose such additional limitations or conditions upon the disclosure of the requested chemical information as may be appropriate to assure that the occupational health services are provided without an undue risk of harm to the chemical manufacturer, importer, or employer.

(11) If a citation for a failure to release trade secret information is contested by the chemical manufacturer, importer, or employer, the matter will be adjudicated before the Occupational Safety and Health Review Commission in accordance with the Act's enforcement scheme and the applicable Commission rules of procedure. In accordance with the Commission rules, when a chemical manufacturer, importer, or employer continues to withhold the information during the contest, the Administrative Law Judge may review the citation and supporting documentation "in camera" or issue appropriate orders to protect the confidentiality of such matters.

(12) Notwithstanding the existence of a trade secret claim, a chemical manufacturer, importer, or employer shall, upon request, disclose to the Assistant Secretary any information which this section requires the chemical manufacturer, importer, or employer to make available. Where there is a trade secret claim, such claim shall be made no later than at the time the information is provided to the Assistant Secretary so that suitable determinations of trade secret status can be made and the necessary protections can be implemented.

(13) Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as requiring the disclosure under any circumstances of process information which is a trade secret.
 
You seem to be missing the ";" punctuation and what it means. When OSHA defined trade secrets (in your post above), the manufacturer has to satisfy i and ii and iii and iv. They don't get to pick and choose one or multiple conditions of those.
 
Originally Posted by MolaKul
What do YOU think OSHA is saying and please point to the specific item number, paragraph, etc.


You've cited the CFR. That's good. It clearly says that the _specific_ percentage of a trade secret item need not be disclosed if... (the several points are then listed).

The OSHA document I linked is guidance to help those who may not understand or may misinterpret the CFR or other law or regs. It is specific on the point of mixtures. The full document is at the link I provided. It says in part:

"• The concentration (exact percentages) of each ingredient must be specified except concentration ranges may be used in the following situations:
-A trade secret claim is made,
-There is batch-to-batch variation, or
-The SDS is used for a group of substantially similar mixtures."


In a general way, the meaning is clear: You MUST list exact concentrations unless one of those three things is true, in which case you may list a concentration range. That absolutely DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO LIE AND CLAIM YOUR PRODUCT CONTAINS 50 - 70% OF AN INGREDIENT WHEN IN FACT IT CONTAINS AN AMOUNT OUTSIDE THAT RANGE.

If OSHA enforces this section differently to your certain knowledge, reference to such determination would be most helpful.
 
Originally Posted by bulwnkl
[
"• The concentration (exact percentages) of each ingredient must be specified except concentration ranges may be used in the following situations:
-A trade secret claim is made,
-There is batch-to-batch variation, or
-The SDS is used for a group of substantially similar mixtures."


In a general way, the meaning is clear: You MUST list exact concentrations unless one of those three things is true, in which case you may list a concentration range. That absolutely DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO LIE AND CLAIM YOUR PRODUCT CONTAINS 50 - 70% OF AN INGREDIENT WHEN IN FACT IT CONTAINS AN AMOUNT OUTSIDE THAT RANGE.

If OSHA enforces this section differently to your certain knowledge, reference to such determination would be most helpful.


I contacted my business attorney who contacted a DC attorney friend of his and who deals with Workplace Safety, OSHA, etc. to determine if what I understood from these OSHA regs were correct.

He confirmed that when we or one of our Blenders develop an SDS and we use Trade Secret claims, and most companies do today, and which was the point of my original comments, it is perfectly legal to use ranges.

He also stated that as long as Sections 2 through 16 of our SDS', and their subparagraphs were sufficiently populated, then we had little to worry about.

So bulwnkl, I don't know what your problem may be but calling people liers on a public forum is poor etiquette.
 
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It looks like the actual percentage of an ingredient cannot be outside of the percentage range in the SDS. It also looks like bulwnkl did not call anybody a liar.
 
Originally Posted by JAG
It looks like the actual percentage of an ingredient cannot be outside of the percentage range in the SDS. It also looks like bulwnkl did not call anybody a liar.


Thanks JAG, but I will stick with the recommendations and advice made by the attorneys after their discovery.
 
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Just to be clear, your attorneys have advised that providing false data on the SDS while a) claiming "trade secret" and b) using a range value (of which the actual value doesn't fall within) is perfectly acceptable and allowed by OSHA ?
 
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