Internet Gossip about M1

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quote:
LS1's are not even hard on oil.
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Generally speaking, you are correct, but I'm sure many people here will agree that if you take an oil that is only 10cst at 100C and subject it to harsh racing conditions and 300F temps, it's not going to offer up very much protection at all. It'll be far too thin.

Those LS1 owners who run those kinds of oil temps should be looking into oil coolers more than anything else though. I would never want my oil temps to get hotter than 250 degrees under any circumstances. With my own car, if I'm stuck in traffic and I suspect my oil temps have risen close to or above 250, I make sure to drive as gently as possible until I know my oil temps have cooled down. This is probably part of the reason for some of my poor wear numbers in the past, oftentimes coming home from work I'd get stuck in traffic and I know the oil was good and hot, and then the traffic would clear up as I got closer to home, and I would make a few full throttle blasts. I don't do that anymore.
 
quote:
Generally speaking, you are correct, but I'm sure many people here will agree that if you take an oil that is only 10cst at 100C and subject it to harsh racing conditions and 300F temps, it's not going to offer up very much protection at all. It'll be far too thin.
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Got it. I agree with you. My point is that if your Car is worked on and pushing 400+ HP, I'd go with a 15w-50 mix or Amsoil/Redline. With the new Z06 pushing 500HP, I wonder what oil GM will call for in it? I just think it's ridiculous to blame M1, even 5w-30 for engine failures in LS1's. It could very well be true and by no means do I think M1 is the greatest oil on the planet, I do think people dont think when doing things like that. Patman, I think German Castrol 0w-30 or Amsoil 0w-30 is a good fit for an LS1. What do you think?

[ August 20, 2003, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
I used to run M1 5W-30 in a turbo SAAB and the thing overheated twice (other people were driving it), once due to a stuck thermostat, and another time due to a failed pulley. I give credit to Mobil 1 for saving the engine from destruction both times.

When I got rid of the car at 205,000 miles, the engine was still fine. I ran that car very hard and I used to see the turbo glowing bright orange-red all the time!

I agree that the thicker viscosities are a good idea for cars that are driven hard... mix in a little 15W-50 perhaps.
 
Switching over from Mobil 1 5W30 to Redline 5W30 in my WRX was a real revelation. I'd been getting a deceleration noise from the tranny/exhaust with the M1, possibly due to falling oil pressure when easing up on the gas. With the Redline this noise went away--I suspect with the higher oil pressure Redline gives, pressure doesn't fall as fast on trailing throttle, so no more noise.

Having used both oils in a high-performance set-up, I think Patman is right--Mobil 1 is fine for most vehicles under most conditions, but for maximum protection, you need the fool-proof moly and viscosity advantages that Redline gives.

I know lots of racing teams around the world use Mobil 1. It'd be interesting to see what formulations they are using--it's got to be different from the usual XW30 we get here in the States.
 
If you dont want to use straight 15w-50, or can't, I believe mixing 10w-30 and 15w-50 together will result in a blend that could hold up to most all high-stress applications (road racing, drag racing, etc...)
 
I don't think GM is allowed to suggest any oil other than GF-3 'on the record'. If you read the EPA documentation regarding GF-3 and new cars, every avenue of recommendation is regulated, with specific emphasis on discouraging people from using anything other than GF-3 oils. This includes what I would call coercive language in the owners manual, those leading phrases about how only 5w30 etc. is permissable and then the mention of open-ended ramifications of doing otherwise is all in the EPA guiding literature. Hence, the GM synthetic spec for High Performance applications.

As for racing with a 5w30 weight, I think it is unrealistic to expect that grade, regadless of it's nature to provide the designed protection under the extemely adverse conditions of racing. The weight of the oil is paramount and the correct grade must be selected for the conditions, in this case racing. 5w30 will suffice in almost all other applications, oils are very well made these days.
 
I'm afraid to make the change over to Mobil 1 because right now, i'm running Mobil Drive Clean Plus and when i start up in the morning, my oil pressure is abou 60 psi and idle. Thats the max PSI it should be on a 4.0L i-6. When i start moving, it gets to 65-67 but 65 is the max when moving. Should i let the Jeep warm up a little b4 i drive it? I dunno if thats the pressure going into the filter or coming out. If its the pressure going in, then its ok because the pressure drop on a Purolator Premium Plus is enough to put it back into the safe range.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Rexman:
possibly due to falling oil pressure when easing up on the gas. With the Redline this noise went away--I suspect with the higher oil pressure Redline gives, pressure doesn't fall as fast on trailing throttle, so no more noise.
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Why would oil pressure be any way related to throttle position?
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The oil pump is usually driven directly from the crankshaft or cams. At any given temperature, oil pressure should be directly related to RPM regardless of throttle position. When you lift at high RPM the oil pressure should not change immediately but should drop gradually with RPM.
 
quote:
Patman, I think German Castrol 0w-30 or Amsoil 0w-30 is a good fit for an LS1. What do you think?
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I definitely think that either of those or Redline 5w30 would work out extremely well in the LS1. If I win the lottery tonight and buy a 2004 Corvette, I'll test out all three oils for you, along with Mobil 1.
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quote:
Originally posted by MRC01

Why would oil pressure be any way related to throttle position?

The oil pump is usually driven directly from the crankshaft or cams. At any given temperature, oil pressure should be directly related to RPM regardless of throttle position. When you lift at high RPM the oil pressure should not change immediately but should drop gradually with RPM.
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MRC01,
Right, when I would ease off the throttle at high RPM's, both the revs and the oil pressure would fall off *faster* with the Mobil than with the Redline. With the Redline there was a slower delay before they both fell off, but for some reason not as much with the Mobil. At least, this is my theory on why the decel noise went away (no other likely explanation between the two oils comes to mind.)

If anyone else has had this experience, it would be interesting to hear their comments.

[ August 20, 2003, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: Rexman ]
 
quote:
Originally posted by Rexman:
Right, when I would ease off the throttle at high RPM's, both the revs and the oil pressure would fall off *faster* with the Mobil than with the Redline.
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Interesting. I can't think of any explanation. Any difference in oil pressure should be related to difference in viscosity. But having the engine spin down at a different rate... that is downright strange.
 
Other than "that" time sitting in traffic it has sat at 180 degrees under all normal driving conditions. The only reason the water temp moved up was when the oil temp passed 260 degrees.
 
Isn't Mobil 1 15w-50 advertised as there racing oil? Why would any even use a 5w-30 for extreme racing, unless they want added HP? I still think adding a qt. of 15w-50 for vettes would be ideal.
 
quote:
Originally posted by buster:
Isn't Mobil 1 15w-50 advertised as there racing oil? Why would any even use a 5w-30 for extreme racing, unless they want added HP? I still think adding a qt. of 15w-50 for vettes would be ideal.
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If Vette owners mixed in just 2 to 2.5qts of 15w50 to their 5w30, it would turn the oil into approximately a 10w40, which is what I feel the ideal LS1 weight if you're driving it very hard.
 
I think Mobil 1 is a fine oil but personally I wouldn't use it (especially the 5w30) in a Corvette, regardless of what the factory recommends. This is the same factory that didn't put an oil cooler in the car to help cut costs. That's when they began specifying Mobil 1 - to help compensate for the lack of an oil cooler. Not exactly an Engineering driven company. The bean counters are in control here.
If I bought a new Corvette, I'd change to Redline 10w30 at the first oil change and I'd probably look into adding an oil cooler as well.
I don't see how the expense of Redline can be an issue with Corvette owners. A $50K car and you want to save a few bucks on oil? Plus it's not like most Corvettes are high mileage commuter cars. Usually the annual miles driven are relatively low in a car like that, so there should be no excuse not to use the best oil.
 
quote:
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quote:
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Originally posted by Rexman:
Right, when I would ease off the throttle at high RPM's, both the revs and the oil pressure would fall off *faster* with the Mobil than with the Redline.
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Interesting. I can't think of any explanation. Any difference in oil pressure should be related to difference in viscosity. But having the engine spin down at a different rate... that is downright strange.
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MRC01,
We're really talking about a subtle difference here, slight but noticeable. The Mobil is a thinner oil with less film strength than the Redline, so oil pressure is going to be lower, even though they're both 5W30's.. I truly think this accounts for the subjective differences I noticed after switching over to the Redline--slightly better low-end turbo response, a little more induction howl, and disappearance of the decel noise. Switching oils was the only variable at the time, so I feel that had to account for the differences.

I'm not knocking M1. It's a great oil in many respects, and I would recommend it over any pure dino on the market today, and over a lot of other synthetics. Plus, I'd never dream of using Redline in our Forester--after 30K mi. on the Mobil it's achieved a beautiful break-in and runs like a top--the engine is very happy with it. Changing over to Redline just wouldn't serve any useful purpose.

But the WRX is a whole different story. It's had a Cobb ECU reflash that ups the power output to 260 hp and 265 lbs. torque-- that's a lot of output for an engine that's only 122 cu.in. And as quandrun1 mentioned, those turbos literally get *red hot* after a hard run. It needs every bit of extra protection that Redline provides. I think the Mobil would be fine for the stock engine though, and the UOA's in that respect have looked exceptionally good.

[ August 21, 2003, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Rexman ]
 
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