Internet Gossip about M1

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South Jersey
I was on the LS1.com forum and found this quite amusing. This is how rumors get started and from this, many stupid questions arise. [Roll Eyes]
quote:
Last month local SCCA meeting had a guest speaker from a local race engine builder. A length discussion came up about oil and after pretty extensive testing they have found that Mobil 1 heats up even more than some conventional oils. Pressure drops have occured at high RPM's also. Not to mention oil burn off and poor flow characteristics compared to other oils. They recommended Amsoil, Royal Purpel, or Redline. Or for a conventional oil Valvoline racing oil. Also something worth noting for you highly modified engine guys is that after becoming fuel saturated Mobil 1 was one of the worst oils even compared to other conventional oils. I know of 3 engines in autocross cars that have blown. They were all using Mobil 1. One of those engines was mine What will I use in the new motor? Valvoline racing in 10w30 this year. After some miles I will be using Redline next year. Another interesting tidbit is that these guys have put TONS of passes on an 1,800 hp motor using 0W10 synthetic Royal Purpel. With VERY little bearing wear.
[ August 19, 2003, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
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Gone
...my...oh my...oh my...methinks that in the automotive world there are more people grinding axes then at the World Lumberjack Championships!
 
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Gone
...as opposed to Royal Propel... [Off Topic!] PS It's too bad that the failsafes for the northeastern power grid weren't as effective as the "Flood Control" on this board! [Mad] [Big Grin] [Mad] [ August 19, 2003, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: pscholte ]
 

Al

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Elizabethtown, Pa
I guess engines can blow with any oil-so the fact that engines blew up with Mobil 1 is not surprising. As far as Mobil1 being the worst in heating up and poor flow Characteristics...hmmmm. After I read that I gave the rest of t the respect it deserves [Smile] The guy probably has an ax to grind against Mobil. Maybe they didn't sponsor his ride.
 
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Outside smalltown, IL
quote:
Originally posted by buster: I was on the LS1.com forum and found this quite amusing. This is how rumors get started and from this, many stupid questions arise. [Roll Eyes]
quote:
Another interesting tidbit is that these guys have put TONS of passes on an 1,800 hp motor using 0W10 synthetic Royal Purpel. With VERY little bearing wear.

Next story they'll tell is that the engine is normally aspirated and runs on pump gas. Racing lies are more fun when they're outlandish, but just enough to make you wonder if they might not be true. When they make everyone call BS right away it takes all the fun out of it... [ August 19, 2003, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: jsharp ]
 
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I would like to know how he was measureing flow. I would love to see those plots. The only cheap way I know to measure flow is with hot wires placed in oil galley locations. I can not see an enginebuilder doing this.
 
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Ontario , Canada
I came across a fella who lost his engine during an auto-x event or some lapping day event on a track, he pretty much blamed the Mobil1 oil for killing the motor and maintains that to this day with absolutely no empirical evidence to prove it. Apparently the dealer told him the damage was caused by an aftermarket oil cooler which was installed, causing oil starvation at high rpms and high cornering loads, and they would not warranty the motor- which sounded more plausible to me - yet he still blames the oil. There are probably thousands of these stories out there for different motor oils.
 

Patman

Staff member
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Guelph, Ontario
I honestly wouldn't be surprised to find out Mobil 1 is indeed the cause of those LS1 engine failures. A recent thread on the Corvette Forum showed that many hard driven LS1 Corvettes show oil temps close to 300 degrees on the road course! So think about that, you're running 5w30 or 10w30 Mobil 1, which is already a thin 30wt oil at 212F. Imagine how thin the oil becomes at 300F! Do you really think it's going to protect a 350hp engine when it's that thin? That is why I believe the LS1 (especially hard driven ones) needs an oil that is a high 30wt to low 40wt oil. The hotter your oil temps, the more critical it is to step up a grade over the normal recommended viscosity.
 

Patman

Staff member
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Guelph, Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by Schmoe: Yeah but any oil at 300F is going to run like water.
True, but take an oil like Redline which is thicker, and has lots of moly, and it'll certainly provide more protection that Mobil 1 does at 300 degrees. And Amsoil's thicker viscosity and it's good antiwear package will also protect better under those extremes too. I think Mobil 1 5w30/10w30 are not quite the "extreme" condition oils everyone thinks they are. It does a great job in normal passenger cars under normal conditions, but if you push it to the absolute extreme under racing conditions, it will let you down. Just because Mobil 1's flashpoint is 450 degrees doesn't mean the oil can still protect the engine at super high oil temps. It just means it won't turn into a flaming ball! [Smile]
 

Patman

Staff member
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22,000
Location
Guelph, Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by Whimsey: Patman, is that when your LS1 turns into a "hunka hunka burnin love" [Wink] . Sorry, I've been watching too many old Elvis movies lately [Big Grin] .
TCB in a flash! [Smile] (I've taken the Graceland tour twice, thank ya, thank ya very much!) [Smile]
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Patman: That is why I believe the LS1 (especially hard driven ones) needs an oil that is a high 30wt to low 40wt oil. The hotter your oil temps, the more critical it is to step up a grade over the normal recommended viscosity.
At least some of those engines blown on road racing courses are due to oil starvation. Extended high RPM operation pulls a lot of oil up into the heads with less in the pan. Now you corner at > 1 G on your racing slicks for several seconds, shifting the oil in the pan to the side, away from the oil pump pickup. It runs dry and BANG. Another cause is shattering the oil pump drive gears due to extended high RPM high temperature operation, possibly combined with the above effect. I've read about and seen pictures of the two above causes being confirmed via post mortem engine teardown. Not pretty! Road racing is MUCH MUCH harder on an engine than autoxing or 1/4 mile drag racing. At the very least, one should run an extra 1/2 to 1 quart of oil and check it periodically throughout the day.
 
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Northern Illinois
Mobil 1 was doing ok for Ryan Newman a while back when I was watching his tach as he raced without shifting. Looked like the engine was hitting a little over 9Krpms. I see he has been doing ok lately too but I don't know if he is shifting or not. Of course that extra mileage probably won him his last race at Michigan [LOL!]
 

buster

Thread starter
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34,192
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South Jersey
Guys, lets be real here. Mobil 1 doesn't cause engines to blow, not even LS1's. Mobil 1 helps engines not to blow! Patman, why would you believe something so ridiculous? Just bc Mobil 1 is light, doesn't mean it can't do the job. First of all, GM tests these cars under very rigourous conditions running stock Vettes at full speed until the tank is empty repetedly for hours upon hours. Second, if your going to be racing you need to add an extra qt of oil for Vettes. You also could run the 15w-50 or a mix. No 5w-30 is going to be used in sever racing. A3 spec oils are only for places like Germany where you can average 150mph. Redline states on there website that this is where there oils shine. It has nothing to do with Mobil 1. LS1's are not even hard on oil. Now, Amsoil and Redline might show better numbers (S2k) then Mobil 1 under these conditions, but to blame it on Mobil 1 is ridiculous IMO. I also think this idea that companies don't care how long engines will last is really overplayed. If you GM and you build a nice sports car, you don't want your quality reputation to go down and repair expenses to go up so it makes zero sense for them not to care. I think thats a lame excuse. If we have learned anything from this website its that using a high quality synthetic of any brand will ensure good protection. [ August 20, 2003, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
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