Interesting Motor Trend article about EVs

[srfdude]

You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

Sorry, that meme you just retweeted isn't correct.

www.motortrend.com

Says EVs are greener than ICE autos no matter what metric you use.

1. EVs produce less emissions including battery production over time, somewhat less than 2 years.

2. Even if the grid were to be fueled by coal alone, the EV still wins for total emissions.

and more

 

[Torrid]

Yes. This is all true. I've done a lot of research on this. Especially with how long the batteries actually last. I'm so sick of people using fake facts to attack me in public. I swear no one believes this happens unless they drive an electric car. I hate that part of the experience so much.

 

[Exit32]

This article makes some valid points, but it ignores the inefficiencies that result from generating electricity, losses in electric transmission lines, and battery-charging inefficiency. In other words, the energy expended to create the electricity used to charge an EV's batteries is far greater than the energy available from the batteries that power an EV.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The calculation typically says EVs are more harmful to manufacture (battery components) but are less harmful long term.
The reason I like Tesla's approach is reusability. Specific car years tend to be less important than other manufacturers.
Heck, look at the SpaceX reckets; they are used numerous times over. Reusability and repurpose vs throw away obsolescence.

But everyone has their own point of view, fact, otherwise or somewhere in between.

 

[JeffKeryk]

This article makes some valid points, but it ignores the inefficiencies that result from generating electricity, losses in electric transmission lines, and battery-charging inefficiency. In other words, the energy expended to create the electricity used to charge an EV's batteries is far greater than the energy available from the batteries that power an EV.

That's true of energy sources in general. But yes, efficiency counts. And not all EVs are created equal, just like ICE venicles.

 

[MRC01]

The paper on which the NYT based their story, and which Motor Trend based their story, had an error that made EVs look better than they are. The authors of the paper revised and corrected this:

ShieldSquare Captcha

iopscience.iop.org

It doesn't change it qualitatively. It's still true that EVs have a heavier environmental/carbon footprint than ICEs when new and eventually, if you drive them far enough, that reverses and they come out ahead. But how far you have to drive before this happens is a bit longer than quoted in those articles.

 

[bullwinkle]

Still need a LOT more “green” generating capacity-maybe fusion is the answer? Not likely in our lifetimes!

 

[gman2304]

Says EVs are greener than ICE autos no matter what metric you use.

Say’s srfdude from socal…………🏄‍♂️

 

[jeepman3071]

I'm sure the studies that continuously show EVs are "better for humans" (whatever that means) are funded by companies who profit from EV sales.

EVs certainly have their place, but anyone who argues only for/against them is ignorant about the whole ecosystem of them. ICE cars have measurable tailpipe emissions, which makes them an easy target for the EPA. It sounds nice to say "we eliminated all tailpipe emissions and our air is cleaner", which would be true for our cities if they were all EV, but the pollution just goes elsewhere, to where the lithium mines are. Lithium mining is a very water intensive dirty process, and many, many mines (I think 35 a year was the figure I read) would need to be built to support the batteries needed for the projected EV production by some of these governments banning ICEs.

Plug-in hybrids make the most sense.

 

[oldcodger]

I agree with jeepman3071 a hybrid would make more sense at this time. I certainly do not see that the total impact on the environment by EVs is better than ICE devices.

 

[wpod]

The media is telling us we are being lied to?

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Good ole fossil fuel is the only way to geaux.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

The media is telling us we are being lied to?

The nerve of them!

 

[alarmguy]

You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

Sorry, that meme you just retweeted isn't correct.

www.motortrend.com

Says EVs are greener than ICE autos no matter what metric you use.

1. EVs produce less emissions including battery production over time, somewhat less than 2 years.

2. Even if the grid were to be fueled by coal alone, the EV still wins for total emissions.

and more

Good story and post.
With that said, I'll need more than Motor Trend writer with cherry picked data. Plus I could care less about CO2, what matters to me is cost/convenience and there isnt an EV SUV that can tow a 5000LB trailer that can be recharged any place in the country in under 5 minutes and for less than $40,000.
So I would suggest they go back to the drawing board as Im not going backwards in my standard of living. Well, actually I dont have too. We are free to chose and I have nothing against those who choose an EV.

 

[LouC]

Please
Where is the evidence that EVs will arrest and reverse climate change??? Of right there isn’t any
And
Just how will it play out with only the US Canada Western Europe and Japan & S Korea participating…and the rest of the world says no way we can’t afford it???
No benefit!

 

[PiperOne]

I like EV's, and do think they should be used by more people, especially urban commuters but, the efficiency numbers quoted in the article for ICE engines are out of date. Unfortunately, like most 'studies' they are funded with an agenda, and get selective with what facts they use to support the math.....and the lazy media gobbles it up (hey, news outlet, here is some free content!).

 

[StumblingElk]

I am not an expert on this but I can't help but notice that the article and the links within totally negate SF6 and NF3 emissions which makes me think they may not be representing the entire story and omitting certain other facets and info. There also isn't much talk about the supply chain for these raw materials or the often unstable or unfriendly regions they come from. Or concerning the cost of these materials as demand is skyrocketing. Or the emissions from building new facilities to meet demand, etc.

I won't argue that EV's aren't less detrimental because I just flat don't know as I am not an expert here. I do strongly suspect that there is more to this than this article mentions.

And of course, Greenhouse Emissions from transportation (land, air, and sea) account for about 16% of total emissions. While reducing emissions is great, we must keep in mind the total effect and how minimal EV may be in reducing total emissions and consumption. In other words, what tangible and measurable effects will switching to EV have? Concrete alone represents up to 8% of global CO2 emissions and beef production is about 14% to 15%, for instance.

 

[PiperOne]

..... and beef production is about 14% to 15%, for instance.

Threaten to take away my burger and steak and I'll be Tesla's happiest customer.

 

[Cruzer4326]

I have a 2 year subscription to MT and have noticed that they are DEFINITELY pro EV and pro Korean auto manufacturer.
They have little negative to say about any EV tested. Mostly range limitation.
The NYT is quoted and that is certainly a biased reporting source.
Hybrids need to bridge the gap and ease the shock of the change.
We shouldn't be forced by faux science (and elected politicians--I want transparency concerning their "investments") to go all EV by 20XX.
Let the technology lead the way, not catch up.

 

[E365]

On the Motor Trend InEVitable podcast they mentioned the webpage views and searches for their EV articles are massive compared to most everything else. Tesla, F-150 Lightning, Hummer EV, etc. The public is obviously interested in EVs - they’re following the demand.