Interesting article to read about oil, I'd liketo hear some feedback on it

Messages
8
Location
Clinton, MA
Hey guys, I just came across this article: http://www.lincolnsonline.com/article105.html It talks about several things, mainly oil consumption, wear on the oil some other things. The interesting part is that he mentions Amsoil and has some negative claims on it. I've been using Amsoil for a while with extended drains on my WRX and I'm seeing oil consumption. I want to see what you guys think about it.
 
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11,247
Location
PA
Good article, long ...but??? "it is highly unlikely that anyone would ever be able to accidentally find or buy any outdated motor oil" It's sold at WalMarts and Quickie Marts, probally gas stations too. It's pretty easy to pick out an oil, it's all in how you use it, like change intervals etc. It would be nice if labels had a lil more info about W ratings and stuff like visc at operating temp and thicker oil for consumption etc. Mobil has taken a shot at it with their miles-specific oils and Hi-Mi oils are helpfull as well. I find articles like you posted to be over-informative and winded. Hearing people at the WalMart service counter, they don't know a thing...just 10w-30, 10w-30!!! Even numbers are better, I guess.
 
Messages
23,591
From this article:
quote:
The oil pump is forcing the moving oil in between the engine's internal components, creating what is called a Hydro-Dynamic Boundary Layer.
And that from a lubrication engineer... [LOL!]
 
Messages
2,917
Location
Georgia/Retired
Comments such as this: "Multi-viscosity oil nearly perfectly solves this problem. By starting out at a relatively thin weight, such as 5 or 10, the oil will be very easily and quickly pumped up to the critical parts of the engine, creating the dynamic layer of protection long before the static layer of protection is gone. Through the use of man-made additives called Viscosity Index Improvers (long chain coil polymers, which are temperature-reactive), the oil will increase its viscosity as it heats up to its full operating temperature." Are simply wrong by design and principle. The cold viscosity is measured using a completely different method than is the hot viscosity. The oils DO NOT thicken when they get hot. The resistance to flow (viscosity) does not increase as the oil heats. Why is this so hard to understand. I read this non-sense even here on this forum on a daily basis and it's simply incorrect.
 
Messages
477
Location
Auburn Hills, Michigan
The guy wrote in his article that Amsoil has more then three times more additives then Mobil 1 or other synthetic oils? How does he know? and then says at what cost to his engine? I do not see many problems with the wear in Amsoil UOAs, the oil may thickened in some UOAs but there is not excessive wear or proof that the engine has gone south [Roll Eyes] ziggyrama, You are concerned about oil consumption with the use of Amsoil, look at some UOAs for Subaru, just the other day there was a UOA for a Subaru using Mobil 1, and they had to top up because of consumption, here is the link: WRX UOA with Mobil 1 it may be that the WRX engine consumes oil? [I dont know]
 
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1,183
Location
Vermont
The writer seemed rather opinionated, and left me wondering about his credentials. Noted some factual errors as well in his arguements, as if reversed in his intended meaning. [Roll Eyes]
 

Ziggyrama

Thread starter
Messages
8
Location
Clinton, MA
Ok, so I am not loosing it. I am by no means an expert in oils but the arguments in the article did not add up to me and I wanted to hear some opinions from you guys. As for M1 in WRXs, I have heard this many complaints about oil loss. It might be that M1 in WRXs has this effect but I am starting to believe that the car likes to use some oil regardless of the brand. I am using Amsoil and I am also loosing some. It is not a huge amount but I am monitoring it. I read the report posted by the person with his WRX STi. I think I know now what must be done. The oil analysis is the truth so I think doing the test is the best way to find out if my car is having some issues or if I am just loosing oil through turbo seals. I already eliminated the possibility of blow by from the crankcase through cam rockers and PCV valve. All comments much appreciated!
 
Messages
441
Location
Toronto, Canada
OK to start with a caveat, I certainly know less about cars than the large majority of people on this board so I don't present myself as some kind of expert... but the guy who wrote the article linked in the original post does exactly that so he's fair game [Wink] There is a lot of misinformation in that article apparent to even someone like me. Some of it could be forgiven as a wsrong but well intentioned simplification for the general audience (eg the explanation of multi-viscosity oils) but there is a lot of just wrong information presented as fact. And howlers that would be apparent to anyone. While I don't doubt that a thinner oil can have benefits in many applications, it is flat out absurd to suggest that switching from GTX 20w50 to Mobil1 (in an unspecified, but presumably thinner grade) in a 1971 Stang alone would increase gas mileage by roughly 60%. Anyhow, it would take forever to catalog the weirdness, and I got bored mid-way through reading anyhow. SO I googled the guy and came up with this bio: "has worked with large and small independent fast-lube operators developing strategies for business growth while implementing continuous training programs to sustain their future success. ... consultants specializing in the car wash and fast-lube arena" Since I know the esteem most of us have for the quikky lube crowd, it makes for some interesting reading at http://www.carwashmag.com/pdf/april_2005/print/5.cfm And "lubrication engineer"? I am not a nitpicker about titles, but half my family are Professional Engineers. My previous job title, working for a big multinantional technical company would include the word "engineer" in most jursidictions but in places like Ontario I would not be entitled to that title, because it is a regulated professional credential. And I am unregulated, uncredentialled and barely professional. This guy seems like less of an engineer than I am. And I ain't no engineer.
 

Ziggyrama

Thread starter
Messages
8
Location
Clinton, MA
So, what do you guys think is one of the major, fundamental flaws in his argument? I am trying to learn something from all of this and I am sure some of the statements he made are probably true but the problem is that a lot of it seems to be interleaved with loads of crap so it makes it hard to pull the goodness from the steaming pile.
 
Messages
6,425
Location
New Braunfels
Don't try to gain anything from it, it will only confuse you becasue he throws in actual terminology with terrible logic and myths I will take on a couple of paragraphs. There are two types of lubrication that motor oil gives to your engine: The first type is called a Hydro-Static Boundary Layer, and that simply means that the viscosity of the oil, which is defined as resistance to flow, is what is causing the oil to cling to the inside surfaces of your engine, while the engine is turned off and the oil pump is not operating. When your engine is first started, this static layer of protection will give the engine adequate lubrication for a few minutes (5 or so) 5 entire minutes before we have oil pressure?? I sure hope not until the oil pump has the ability to create enough oil pressure to get the heated oil moving up into the upper parts of your motor. Serious false hood At this point, the second type of lubrication takes over: The oil pump is forcing the moving oil in between the engine's internal components, creating what is called a Hydro-Dynamic Boundary Layer. That simply means oil that is moving around by way of the oil pump. With a single-grade oil, the heat from operation thins the oil that is clinging to the upper parts of the engine quickly, much more quickly than the oil in the pan. This reduces its viscosity, or ability to flow and causes the engine to lose its Hydro-Static Boundary Layer of lubrication. Not true, the oil thins as it heats up and thickens as it cools just like a multi visc oil Unfortunately, the relatively thick single-grade 30-weight has not warmed up enough in the pan to be easily pumped up to the upper-engine before the static layer is depleted. So what you have is an engine that has lost its static lubrication, but is not receiving any adequate dynamic lubrication yet. Maybe if it is -30 outside but if you are able to pump the oil at all it will continue to flow through the bearings. This creates and abundance of wear and tear. This is why most engines from the 50's and 60's would be all used up at around 50,000-75,000 miles. That, and the high sulfur and phosphorous trace elements in the oil. How about better engineering, metalurgy fuel injection and higher quality oils? My head hurts already
 
Messages
1,432
Location
Virginia
The 'expert' says: "The bulk of driving conditions in Europe is on high-speed highways, with a small amount of city-type driving. This is the best driving conditions for oil and therefore an engine. American driving typically consists mostly of city and traffic-jam driving which is the absolute worst kind of driving." - - - - - - - - - DINGDINGDING we have a winner!!
 
Messages
6,425
Location
New Braunfels
Multi-viscosity oil nearly perfectly solves this problem. By starting out at a relatively thin weight, such as 5 or 10, the oil will be very easily and quickly pumped up to the critical parts of the engine, creating the dynamic layer of protection long before the static layer of protection is gone. I will leave that to someone else to comment on but goes back to the 5 minute deal Through the use of man-made additives called Viscosity Index Improvers (long chain coil polymers, which are temperature-reactive), the oil will increase its viscosity as it heats up to its full operating temperature. Whoa.. big misnomer nere.. all oils thin as heated and thicken as they cool. the VII's cause the oil to thin less at tmperature. The operating temperature for motor oil is 150 degrees. Really Now? I was thinking tat least 180 if not higher. This overlap of boundary layers of protection is what has enabled engines to go for 250,000-400,000 miles on a regular basis, along with much better refined oil. sure, multi viscosity oil has done it.. I am sure I could run a 30 wt in south texas and with the right use get that mileage Basically, it has taken almost all of the wear and tear out of the warm-up phase of engine operation, which is where 75% of all internal engine wear comes from. Where is he getting these numbers from?
 
Messages
6,425
Location
New Braunfels
I can't go on this hurts my head.. so much is wrong that the few things that are right lack credibility in this article. Matt, For most of Europe that superhiway thing is a myth. I have rode and driven in Italy while visiting a cousing who was there for a while in the Navy and it is pretty scary city driving if not severe do t the obvious lack of pollution controls.
 
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