Pins are NOT a problem, and needed for adjustment. I have 2 pair of Walker brand stands that use a pin in each for adjustment. I have been using them for 50 years, and have heavily dropped heavy vehicles on them with No damage to the pins. don't know what they are made out of, but they show NO wear in the pins. I love the idea of the way they work, especially if they will go high enough that most jacks can go to max lift, and be held there. Price would have to be under $100 for me though.
In need of the forum's help assessing a new idea..
- Thread starter RennStand
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So true about the pins. I've abused a couple of those prototypes in testing, and not even so much as an indentation in any of the pins. Thanks so much for your input, and best regards!
All I can say is, simply brilliant! I have thought about it a lot, but never could come up with a more simple solution to a huge problem like you have. But, there is still a need to use 4 stands. Some cars it is hard to find a central point to lift the other end.
I appreciate the compliment very much! I know that for many, 1 pair won't be enough, and I'm going to do my best to keep the price down so that purchasing 4 stands hopefully won't be too painful. One of the challenges I'm facing now is finding a domestic manufacturer who can build these very well, but also work with me to keep the production cost down so they can be accessible to almost anyone who needs them. Thanks again, and best regards!
How much to pay would depend on the load capacity of the stands. I'll agree with a poster above. For a "domestic" build your competitors would be us Jack and hein Werner. I'd think you'd have to undercut them due to their name recognition.
As it is right now, I see too many parts for my preference. In other words, too many pins that I might lose. Any way to make the pins integral to the stand?
As it is right now, I see too many parts for my preference. In other words, too many pins that I might lose. Any way to make the pins integral to the stand?
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Watching the video, it would appear that the center piece prefers a flat jack pad; is that the case ? The reason why I ask is because some of the floor jacks use a cupped jack pad and I'm guessing that wouldn't hold the center piece as stable as a flat jack pad.
I appreciate the input! Load capacity for the aluminum stands will be 2 tons per pair by ANSI standards, more for the steel/aluminum versions. Regarding the pins, I have a few ways in mind to keep them attached to the stands, so it's possible that will be one of the features. Thank you for letting me know that was one of your concerns as it motivates me to further refine the product!
Yes, this version works only with a flat jack saddle. However, I have a patent pending on an something that allows you to remove your cupped jack saddle and directly attach the center piece to the jack arm. Thank you for the question!
"I wish to place the first order!" Thank you so much for that comment!!!
I really appreciate the venture resources you shared with me; I'm going to contact both. I didn't realize UF had a program like that, and they're not too far from me. Regarding price/pair, somewhere below the $150 mark does seem to be the general consensus. The challenge has been finding a US manufacturer that can help accomplish that, but maybe one of the universities you suggested can point me in the right direction too.
One of the things we did in testing was operate the stands on fairly rough asphalt with small loose pebbles. Not something I would ever do under normal circumstances or suggest that a customer does, but I wanted to see what would give if the jack was dragging. Interestingly the center piece seemed to pull the jack with it without tending to tilt, and it was the point between the stand's center piece and the car that shifted negligibly which is what would have happened if we were just using a floor jack by itself under those circumstances. So far so good, but we are going to keep on testing them.
Thanks again!
I really appreciate the venture resources you shared with me; I'm going to contact both. I didn't realize UF had a program like that, and they're not too far from me. Regarding price/pair, somewhere below the $150 mark does seem to be the general consensus. The challenge has been finding a US manufacturer that can help accomplish that, but maybe one of the universities you suggested can point me in the right direction too.
One of the things we did in testing was operate the stands on fairly rough asphalt with small loose pebbles. Not something I would ever do under normal circumstances or suggest that a customer does, but I wanted to see what would give if the jack was dragging. Interestingly the center piece seemed to pull the jack with it without tending to tilt, and it was the point between the stand's center piece and the car that shifted negligibly which is what would have happened if we were just using a floor jack by itself under those circumstances. So far so good, but we are going to keep on testing them.
Thanks again!
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JHZR2
Staff member
Low volume, niche product.
I'd have a look at the pricing for jackpoint Jack stands and reverse logic adapted stands to get an idea.
There's something about the design that scares me. I think it's the bent aluminum with fairly small pins, that go into the part that the jack lifts.. Even if analyzed and tested, I think I'd want to see more margin in those areas, simply for peace of mind.
All the same, the way these break down is a stroke of genius, because there's nothing that stows away easily and in a compact manner, on the market now (that I'm aware of). That compact storage is worth a lot, especially for a niche product.
How do these behave on uneven/unlevel surfaces?
Is there a square adapter for BMW and others?
What's the maximum lift height? Another issue with stands is that the lift height isn't high enough to have a lot of working space underneath. That's especially an issue with low cars with sunk Jack pad points. Makes you have to do a two stage lift and all sorts of scary stuff, especially if you want to get the vehicle up on four Jack stands...
Great stuff, good luck!
I'd have a look at the pricing for jackpoint Jack stands and reverse logic adapted stands to get an idea.
There's something about the design that scares me. I think it's the bent aluminum with fairly small pins, that go into the part that the jack lifts.. Even if analyzed and tested, I think I'd want to see more margin in those areas, simply for peace of mind.
All the same, the way these break down is a stroke of genius, because there's nothing that stows away easily and in a compact manner, on the market now (that I'm aware of). That compact storage is worth a lot, especially for a niche product.
How do these behave on uneven/unlevel surfaces?
Is there a square adapter for BMW and others?
What's the maximum lift height? Another issue with stands is that the lift height isn't high enough to have a lot of working space underneath. That's especially an issue with low cars with sunk Jack pad points. Makes you have to do a two stage lift and all sorts of scary stuff, especially if you want to get the vehicle up on four Jack stands...
Great stuff, good luck!
Thank you so much for your compliments, your great input, and also for sharing your concerns! I'll do my best to address them, and please keep in mind that what you see in the pics and video are only prototypes and do not exactly represent the production model.
The upper legs (curved) that I believe you're referring to will be either water-jetted, fabricated or cast of aluminum, and not bent in the production model. If the upper legs end up being constructed of steel, then bending shouldn't pose a durability concern, but of course everything will be built and tested within industry safety standards.
Regarding the pins, those two at the center are not load bearing, and are there just to ensure that the legs remain in position and securely attached to the center piece. With that in mind, they are the same size pins used in the lower legs which are in fact load bearing, and these pins are 1/4" steel and each is in double sheer and capable of sustaining up to 19Kn (1.9 metric tons of force per pin).
In addition, keep in mind that each load bearing pin will only bear half the weight of whatever each stand is supporting, so you would have to load 4 metric tons on EACH stand before you approach pin failure, while the complete pair of aluminum stands is only rated to 2 tons. So that gives you a safety factor of 4 for each pin.
Just to give you an idea of how the stands will handle uneven surfaces, simulations were done by an engineer from Embry Riddle Aeronautical University using the SolidWorks FEA Simulation software. The simulations (single stand/aluminum) were conducted using a loading of 6,500 lb at the stand's highest setting while on flat, level ground. A friction coefficient of 0.3 for greasy/slippery surfaces was used for the contact between the stand and the ground. The results of the testing demonstrate the stand's ability to withstand the ANSI requirement for a safety factor of 3 or greater, therefore giving each stand a safe load rating of 2,000 lb, or 1-ton. Simulations of non-ideal loadings verified that the stand will also be able to safely handle sufficient loads should the stand be misused up to a safety factor of 2, i.e. 4,000 lb., meaning we tested what would happen if, for example, one of the feet came down on a tool accidentally, or just settled on an uneven surface as another example. So even twisted a bit, the stands held 4,000 lbs before beginning to show the warning signs of structural failure. This was only for the aluminum version, so you could imagine how much stronger they are as an aluminum-steel hybrid, or full steel.
When the production version is finalized, it will also be subjected to real life testing, with the intent of destroying it to determine how much it can actually endure before it fails.
The height range of the current prototypes are 11" to 15", but it may be expanded further in the production version.
Regarding the adapters, the plan is to be able to provide an adapter for all common makes. Pretty much any shape is easily cnc'd, and all adapters will have the same size peg that fits into the receptacle in the center piece, so they're easily interchangeable.
Sorry for the long-winded response, but I wanted to address your concerns as thoroughly as I could. Thank you again for expressing them, and for your feedback and kind words! Best regards!
The upper legs (curved) that I believe you're referring to will be either water-jetted, fabricated or cast of aluminum, and not bent in the production model. If the upper legs end up being constructed of steel, then bending shouldn't pose a durability concern, but of course everything will be built and tested within industry safety standards.
Regarding the pins, those two at the center are not load bearing, and are there just to ensure that the legs remain in position and securely attached to the center piece. With that in mind, they are the same size pins used in the lower legs which are in fact load bearing, and these pins are 1/4" steel and each is in double sheer and capable of sustaining up to 19Kn (1.9 metric tons of force per pin).
In addition, keep in mind that each load bearing pin will only bear half the weight of whatever each stand is supporting, so you would have to load 4 metric tons on EACH stand before you approach pin failure, while the complete pair of aluminum stands is only rated to 2 tons. So that gives you a safety factor of 4 for each pin.
Just to give you an idea of how the stands will handle uneven surfaces, simulations were done by an engineer from Embry Riddle Aeronautical University using the SolidWorks FEA Simulation software. The simulations (single stand/aluminum) were conducted using a loading of 6,500 lb at the stand's highest setting while on flat, level ground. A friction coefficient of 0.3 for greasy/slippery surfaces was used for the contact between the stand and the ground. The results of the testing demonstrate the stand's ability to withstand the ANSI requirement for a safety factor of 3 or greater, therefore giving each stand a safe load rating of 2,000 lb, or 1-ton. Simulations of non-ideal loadings verified that the stand will also be able to safely handle sufficient loads should the stand be misused up to a safety factor of 2, i.e. 4,000 lb., meaning we tested what would happen if, for example, one of the feet came down on a tool accidentally, or just settled on an uneven surface as another example. So even twisted a bit, the stands held 4,000 lbs before beginning to show the warning signs of structural failure. This was only for the aluminum version, so you could imagine how much stronger they are as an aluminum-steel hybrid, or full steel.
When the production version is finalized, it will also be subjected to real life testing, with the intent of destroying it to determine how much it can actually endure before it fails.
The height range of the current prototypes are 11" to 15", but it may be expanded further in the production version.
Regarding the adapters, the plan is to be able to provide an adapter for all common makes. Pretty much any shape is easily cnc'd, and all adapters will have the same size peg that fits into the receptacle in the center piece, so they're easily interchangeable.
Sorry for the long-winded response, but I wanted to address your concerns as thoroughly as I could. Thank you again for expressing them, and for your feedback and kind words! Best regards!
Not long winded at all! Great read.
Thank you!
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