quote:Yes, but remember the adverts about being made in the little factory in Springhill? A lot of people thought they were buying into some sort of communistic experience. And..a lot did think there was something better about the car in the beginning. They were fresh. Being college-aged when they debuted, I remember a lot of the lefty crowd buying them b/c that's the vibe they gave off. Heck, my brother bought one after driving nothing but Japanese cars. But they lost that "clean sheet" something different momentum and they just became a Cavalier alternative. Speaking of saleries, a top executive at the local GM plant (H3, Colorado, and Canyon) lives in one of the nicest, largest houses in my neighborhood. My home inspector is a retiree from the same plant and made enough to have a fleet of Bimmers and Porshes (and one Caddy). So yeah, perhaps pay is getting a little excessive.
The Saturn was a corporate clean sheet of paper corporation. The plastic fendered car sounded like three bolts in a beer can. There was nothing special about the car, not the look, not the mechanicals, nothing but the no hassle price. If that is the best of GM, then as Don Meredith used to sing, when the score got out of hand on Monday night, "Turn out the lights, the part's over".
Impala article in NY Times
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It's important that GM has big salaries for it's executives. That way they can have the best leadership possible. Because of the fine leadership, GM is the best they can be. And to keep this leadership in place there must be raises and a bonus for every one. You just can tell how important an executive is until you've seen his house and his boat and his summer house. And all this petty stuff about making lousy cars that fall apart. Let the riff-raff worry about that. Besides what can you do from a golf cart anyhow. Besides, we have to meet the union leaders for cocktails, after all it's lunch time, isn't it?
The way to fix GM is to pay the executive leaders union scale and throw out the union leaders and get back to work.
"In a reflection of Toyota’s team-oriented approach, its executive pay is paltry by U.S. standards. Analyst Ron Tadross at Banc of America Securities estimates the total annual compensation of Toyota’s CEO at under $1 million..."
Quote above came from here
Looks like you don't always get what you pay for. ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif)
By GM standards Toyota is doing everything wrong. Toyota is opening plants in the US. GM is closing them. Toyota is building quality into cars. GM is building stylish cars. Toyota pays cash for new plants, GM finances everyting. Toyota does not know that it's impossible to make cars in the US and that you can't possibly make a profit making small cars. In fact Toyota is so stupid that they only have three lines of cars, cheap, regualr and expensive. They are so stupid that they don't even make models that compete with each other. And the worst mistake of all. Toyota is going to make big pickups and sell them to Americans. Why, they are even building the pickup plant in Texas. You know, if Toyota keeps on making these stupid mistakes GM executives will be in the same unemployment lines as their employees.
Here's a message to the 30,000 employees GM canned, from GM executives having cocktails at the country club, "Merry Christmas".
Hoist a glass of cheer to 30,000 Ford employees in five assembly plants while you're at it...
Maybe all the new Hyundai employees in the giant Alabama plant can send them a Christmas present.
Stories in the local Detroit Newspapers, state that Toyota , is very seriously considering Michigan, for a new engine plant, with local government offering the perks and tax-free considerations, to them. That's good news for the workers if they hire locally and taxes for the local cities, etc., because of the jobs.
Toyota is being courted by our Governor, as well as the other foreign car makers for moving USA operations into Michigan, to fill the void and tax base vacuum, left by the downsizing of GM, Ford, and Chrysler. Flint and Lansing, are basically out of the car business, after 100 years. Things have changed very much around here and agriculture is still abundant, so we still have something to sell and eat. It has come full circle.
30000 jobs lost from Ford, to match 28000 from GM. Each carmaker job affects 8 complementary and related jobs; so a lot of people are going to be out of work in the near future, around here and maybe where you are too.
And so it goes... ![[Patriot]](/forums/graemlins/patriot.gif)
How many jobs is Hyundai bringing to the US and how much do they pay? Does anyone know? I used to travel near the Honda plant in Columbus, Ohio and they (Honda) would advertise jobs on the Columbus radio stations paying $10.50 an hour. You would think that a company with so much profit would pay their employees a little more than that. If you listen really hard you can hear the gigantic sucking sound of your money going straight to Japan.
My Familly(Uncles, Aunts...ect. ect) got burned by the big 3.
Everyone jumped ship and bought Imports 2 years ago, till this day, everyone is still happy.
My father is sticking with Ford. When it comes to Trucks, Ford makes them well... My dad loves his Super Duty.
My 1st car was a GM product. What a major disapointment. Had a huge party when I sold it..
It's too bad ![[Frown]](images/icons/frown.gif)
the big 3 lost my support.
the big 3 lost my support.quote:Yeah, but the point is GM needs to be a viable company making good quality products, not a welfare agent and economic crutch. That's part of the reason they are IN this situation. I'm not trying to be cruel, but... I'm not trying to make generalizations about autoworkers but I've got a master's degree and barely scrape by working my behind off. Yet I'm supposed to be sympathetic to someone who has no college and is getting paid more than me with better benefits to put a bumper on a car? GM has it's share of $10.50 an hour positions as well, by the way. But it has plenty that make a LOT more. Hyundai's plant in Alabama, by the way, employs 2,200 people directly (with full benefits) and is expected to yeield an additional 5,500 jobs for suppliers. As for their wage....they to make more than I do!!! Check out this excerpt from their website:
How many jobs is Hyundai bringing to the US and how much do they pay? Does anyone know? I used to travel near the Honda plant in Columbus, Ohio and they (Honda) would advertise jobs on the Columbus radio stations paying $10.50 an hour. You would think that a company with so much profit would pay their employees a little more than that. If you listen really hard you can hear the gigantic sucking sound of your money going straight to Japan.
quote:I got that from http://www.hmmausa.com/jobs.cfm All that and they still seem to produce cars cheaper than GM.
New jobs are being added almost every day to Hyundai's Management and Technical Jobs. Please go to Alabama Joblink for a complete listing. HMMA is currently seeking Maintenance Team Members to support the Plant Engineering Department. Wages for Maintenance Team Members begin at $19.12/hour and progress over a 24-month period to $24.79/hour. Benefits include medical, dental, vision and pharmaceutical insurance; 14 paid holidays; 10 vacation days; 401(K) savings plan; vehicle discounts; company-provided Team wear; and a drug-free workplace. HMMA is also currently seeking Die Maintenance Team Members to support the Stamping/Body Department. Wages for Die Maintenance Team Members begin at $19.12/hour and progress over a 24-month period to $24.79/hour. Benefits include medical, dental, vision and pharmaceutical insurance; 14 paid holidays; 10 vacation days; 401(K) savings plan; vehicle discounts; company-provided Team wear; and a drug-free workplace.
And, that's despite spending an extra $800.00 per car to equip the engines with dual-overhead camshafts, four valves per cylinder, and variable valve timing. Korea must truly be a technological giant of a country that it can lavish such engineering expertise designing inexpensively priced automobiles! Obviously those stupid Koreans have no comprehension of the cost/benefit analysis studies that guide GM product planners and upper echelon management in continuing to foist "old-tyme-religion" overhead valve pushrod engines on true-blue 'mericans. (There's sarcastic satire somewhere in there...)
[ December 09, 2005, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
...so for every 30,000 jobs lost, we get 5,000 lower paying jobs back.
It isn't GM's job to keep everyone who needs a job employed. GM is a CAR company. If it would focus itself, it could be a GOOD car company.
Besides, you act like the one Hyundai plant is the only foreign automaker in the US. Toyota, Nissan, Mitsu, and Honda all have plants here not to mention Daimler Chrysler and BMW. But I guess those jobs don't count. If GM is so patriotic, why are they making US market cars in Mexico as well? GM held on to its outdated ways as long as it did b/c there were still plenty of rural markets where the only option was a big 3 car. Now there are MANY more foreign auto dealers and quite frankly, some people would rather drive 100 miles to by a Japanese car than suffer through another GM product. My parents did when they jumped ship from Pontiac to Honda. About the only person in my family who refuses to consider a Japanese car is my wife's grandfather, who hasn't quite forgiven the Japanese yet after fighting them in the Phillipines. Imagine his shock when my wife brought home a Mitsubishi.
If you think GM is unpatriotic, wait until you see what the multinational corporations do after they suck the life out of our country. I also could imagine your grandfather's shock and disappointment about the mitsubishi..
Sucking the life out of us wouldn't be a good business model. If we can't BUY their cars, they can't sell them to us. I don't think gm is being unpatriotic. I am just bringing to light the realities of modern car companies and manufacturing. What's better for the economy is the question. Thousands of employed autoworkers working for a parent company from outside the US, contributing to the economy, paying taxes, buying goods and services...or a US company that is NOT doing well and laying off workers. I sure hope the UAW helps them out... $24.79 an hour translates to over $50k a year. The horror of Hyundai forcing American workers to settle for that. Especially in a place with such a high cost of living as Alabama! It's slave labor....
I'm not going to wave a flag for GM's complete mediocrity. After getting completely embarrassed by the rest of the world's automotive industry (save SUVs, where the rest of the world barely cares to compete), if GM doesn't get it, perhaps they should just delcare bankruptcy and get it over with.
Just take a look around and notice the vast inventories of new vehicles at any stealership. Our ability to produce these cars far exceeds our ability to consume them at $30,000 a copy for something you really want to drive. As this moves forward these excesses will arive at import dealers also after the current milage craze goes away. GM's problem is just more pronounced as they are older and have longer ties in upper management that are reluctant to close a division or 2 that would cost one of their GOLFING partners a job. In a down economy it is a real hassle to find a good GOLFING partner. This is why GM needs outside help from a consultant to CHOP HEADS. IT WILL DE UGLY, but in the big picture things would improve.
quote:LOL, Especially if you are a BITOG'er taking care of your engine and keeping your car over 200k miles!
Our ability to produce these cars far exceeds our ability to consume them at $30,000 a copy for something you really want to drive.
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"There are no countries anymore, Jonathan. Only corporations." - From Rollerball, 1975.
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