I'm going to run Kreen in a 5s-fe, opinions

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Just what is your problem?
The OP want to try a product and asked for opinions and he got them including yours.
Every post that is of a different opinion than yours gets a swift and rabid anti additive response from you like your some sort of an self absorbed mickey mouse expert monitoring the thread.

Let the OP make up his own mind for petes sake.
 
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
skyship - What I gave him was real experiences that worked well for my sludged up Camry and other cleanups. We disagree on Castrol. On several engines I've cleaned up including the Camry that was the oil used. I'm certainly not going to put their products back in to fix it. Fast flushes don't have time to do anything miraculous for hardened sludge. I know, I tried, unlike you whos guessing about additives you have never used.


Isn't funny when someone who hasn't used a product tells you it won't work, and you've used it with success? Strange isn't it? At least if you're going to bash something, bash something you've tried. LOL
 
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
skyship - What I gave him was real experiences that worked well for my sludged up Camry and other cleanups. We disagree on Castrol. On several engines I've cleaned up including the Camry that was the oil used. I'm certainly not going to put their products back in to fix it. Fast flushes don't have time to do anything miraculous for hardened sludge. I know, I tried, unlike you whos guessing about additives you have never used.


I have used a number of additives in my youth including flushes, but I try not to talk about my past errors in public.
 
Originally Posted By: skyship
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Recommend initial cleaning with what I'm running in my Camry, M1 HM 5w30. Its a full syn, the best cleaner oil I've ever used. In addition to its cleaning power, M1 HM has extra conditioners. What usually goes along with a sludger is hardened seals. As you cleanup, you may spring a leak. M1 HM will help you there. M1 HM also has extra wear additives. You will have a lot of deposits floating around during cleanup which can be abrasive. I would go with and stay with M1 HM 5w30 for the rest of the Camrys life. The first 2 OCI's should be short (5k). Then on the 3rd you can extend to 7-8k. I would use the Kreen after the 3rd OCI to get anything left. Waiting to the 3rd OCI will make sure the seals are well nourished before adding Kreen. My experience with Kreen is it does a good job dissolving deposits because its a slower dissolving "drive with" additive vs a "fast flush" additive which can break off chunks and block something.


If you must ignore the section of an engine maintenance manual that describes how it should be cleaned and use a flush, then buy one from an engine oil company, preferably a major one like Castrol, Liqui Moly or Amsoil.
The pre OCI idle flushes are far safer than a drive around flush because the engine is at idle only for 10 to 15 minutes and even if the oil filter or turbo feed line blocks it won't cause any real harm, although it is a good idea to watch the oil pressure warning light just in case the oil pump feed screen blocks.
There is still a risk of causing an oil leak when using a flush in an old engine with poor seals with any type of flush or even a full synthetic oil.


Did I miss where this engine was described as turbo aspirated
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
skyship - What I gave him was real experiences that worked well for my sludged up Camry and other cleanups. We disagree on Castrol. On several engines I've cleaned up including the Camry that was the oil used. I'm certainly not going to put their products back in to fix it. Fast flushes don't have time to do anything miraculous for hardened sludge. I know, I tried, unlike you whos guessing about additives you have never used.


Isn't funny when someone who hasn't used a product tells you it won't work, and you've used it with success? Strange isn't it? At least if you're going to bash something, bash something you've tried. LOL


I will say that I've never used Kreen and it's never worked for me
smile.gif
 
Did anyone read the OP's post? His mom drives around 1500 miles per year-all these recommendations about 3K and 5K ocis are WORTHLESS-based on the cars present use

OP-I wouldn't use any flush in this situation-just good quality oil and filter changed once per year
 
Oh, I was plenty content to change the oil annually based on my mom's driving schedule. It's not sludged up to throw a rod like some of the horror stories you hear, it probably looks like what a 150k engine looks like that gets a change once a year with severe service. I figure it would be a good candidate to see what Kreen can actually do, with (possible) actual sludge deposits in the engine and not just varnish which is what most people here at BITOG have and seem to want to clean (because if you're posting here, all of your engines probably do not need extra cleaning).

I was pondering the best scenario for before/after pics to showcase what Kreen can do, to remove all variables unrelated to Kreen. Then again, once I pop the head cover off, if there aren't any significant sludge/carbon deposits, I'll just drop the whole 'Kreening' idea altogether.
 
Originally Posted By: cutter
Oh, I was plenty content to change the oil annually based on my mom's driving schedule. It's not sludged up to throw a rod like some of the horror stories you hear, it probably looks like what a 150k engine looks like that gets a change once a year with severe service. I figure it would be a good candidate to see what Kreen can actually do, with (possible) actual sludge deposits in the engine and not just varnish which is what most people here at BITOG have and seem to want to clean (because if you're posting here, all of your engines probably do not need extra cleaning).

I was pondering the best scenario for before/after pics to showcase what Kreen can do, to remove all variables unrelated to Kreen. Then again, once I pop the head cover off, if there aren't any significant sludge/carbon deposits, I'll just drop the whole 'Kreening' idea altogether.


We eagerly await pics and testing!!
 
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
He said he'd changed his mind.


Contingent on whether or not it's actually dirty. When the weather warms, I'll open up the valve cover. If it's relatively clean, anyone have a sludged up beater they wanna give me?
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
^^^Great strategy. Additives are often used when not really needed.


Very good point as a lot of addaholics use them as a precaution rather than an attempted cure. Some of the folks that do have an engine problem beyond economic repair then use the wrong additive, with the classic error of using a flush in an engine that has a high oil consumption or leaks being top of the list for mistakes made by addaholics. The latest HM oils are the answer to many sludge concerns, when combined with a short OCI.
 
Oh skyship after not seeing you post in the additives section I hoped you had given up knocking us all the time. Guess I got my hopes up too soon
 
The funny thing about Skyship is that at first he seemed to approve of engine flushes, although he did not seem to know what engine flushes were used in Germany. And now he is saying even engine flushes are a no-no. And I remember him saying that he concocted his own engine cleaners for marine engines, but later he said that he used available engine cleaners. Then he started talking about additives used in engine oils and started saying that even moly as an additive was a no-no in new, high tech engine oils.

And he never did seem to locate that runaway turbo car where some sort of engine cleaner had been put in-the engine cleaner never identified.

All this from an investigator for insurance and warranty claims.

Somehow I find it a little hard to believe that an investigator for insurance and warranty claims is going to know about new, high tech engine oils under development. And I think that if it was suspected that an engine cleaner somehow caused a runaway turbo car accident it would be known by now what engine cleaner had been used in that turbo car.

We have all heard of Amsoil. Amsoil makes two engine flushes I believe. One of them a nonsolvent flush. People needing to clean a dirty engine use those Amsoil engine flushes all the time. Where are all of the destroyed engines? If Amsoil engine flushes were destroying engines I think we probably would have heard of it by now. And Amsoil would have removed those products.

Where are all of the destroyed engines from people using MMO and Kreen? You would think that Ford, GM, and Chryster would have issued some sort of warning by now for people using those products.

I do not believe in most oil supplements. I think most are junk. But I will take my advice from somebody other than Skyship. Engine flushes exist for a reason. Amsoil still makes engine flushes. That says something. And MMO and Kreen are still around. The last time I checked MMO was still being sold at my local Wal-Mart Store.
 
Originally Posted By: electrolover
How many times can he insult people before he gets a "vacation"????
Addaholics.....really?


It seems that his whole thing is "no additive does what it claims". Well, I've got a canister of fine paving sand here that's been relabeled as "Killzall Engine Exterminator". The back of the label reads "Add entire contents to crankcase and rev engine until desired effect is achieved. Killzall Engine Exterminator, when added to engine oil, will destroy any and every engine."

I suppose he's gonna chime in and tell us it won't kill an engine, because it's an additive, additives never live up to their claims, and it claims that it *will* destroy the engine.

Now I'll agree that there are a great number of adds that don't live up to their claims, or that do live up to their claims but cause other issues down the line, and I'll go so far as to say I've yet to see an add that improves upon a well-formulated oil when added to said oil. That said, not every additive is intended to improve upon the oil it is being added to; some (I should say most, if we're limiting the discussion to the additives touted on this board) claim to perform duties above and beyond those the oil itself is tasked with. That is to say, some adds (such as Kreen) don't claim to improve an oil or do the oil's job better than the oil itself; rather, the claim is that they clean parts or soften/swell seals in ways oil is not intended to work.

I should say that anyone who can't wrap their head around that should, perhaps, find a different topic to discuss.

Of course, adding any amount of MMO to a crankcase full of 0w20 is probably a bad idea if your motor calls for 5w30, but 1qt of MMO in a 5qt sump full of a decent 10w40 could make all the difference in the performance of that same engine, over a period of time. Good for everyone? Certainly not. Useless to all? Likewise.
 
Originally Posted By: KeMBro2012

Of course, adding any amount of MMO to a crankcase full of 0w20 is probably a bad idea if your motor calls for 5w30, but 1qt of MMO in a 5qt sump full of a decent 10w40 could make all the difference in the performance of that same engine, over a period of time. Good for everyone? Certainly not. Useless to all? Likewise.



http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/227/

Marvel Mystery Oil is approximately a straight 5 weight oil. Adding 16 ounces of MMO to 6-1/2 quarts of motor oil will not thin any grade motor oil enough to take it out of grade. This is only approximately a 7.5 % replacement of motor oil with MMO. When you replace 20 to 25 % of the motor oil with MMO, you can expect to see about a 1 SAE grade drop in the motor oil.

So, why would I use 10w-40 only to have it drop a grade?
 
See, this is the kind of discourse that makes this forum useful. I honestly thought MMO was thinner than a 0 weight. My basis for this is comparing its rate of flow when topping of my wife's car with 4oz of the stuff to the rate of flow of the 0w20 I topped mine off with in roughly 20F weather; both oils were stored outside and would have been near ambient temperature. The 0w20 would have been about the consistency of a 5 weight at that temperature and the MMO was considerably thinner. We'll go with MMO being a straight 5, though, and run through a few scenarios.

That said, you're off the mark by a fair bit.

Speaking in terms of vehicles with 5qt sumps, replacing 1qt (that's 32oz, for the record) with MMO, as I stated, that is 20%. You'd end up with something resembling a 9w33, close enough to 10w30 for the purposes of this hypothetical discussion.

Consider a 4-banger with a 3.5qt sump, now; also consider that your average uninformed additive user (we're a bit above average here, remember) is buying *and using* 1qt of MMO. The engine calls for 5w30, so that's what is used, except that 1 of 3.5qt is 28.57%, which means while the "winter" rating remains at 5, the second number (you know, that all-important rating of the oil's grade at operating temperatures) drops to 22.857, close enough to a 5w20 for our purposes.

Let's further assume a newbie to BITOG who has been convinced that thinner is better. Same engine, same sump, but 0w20 this time. 1.43w15.71 isn't a grade I've ever heard of, how about you? 1w16 is what it would likely be labeled, if grading were that precise; it's too thin to be considered 0w20 anymore and nothing calls for 0w10 just yet. This is just asking for trouble.

My Corolla calls for 5w30, I prefer to run 0w20 for a number of reasons. I also like to run 16oz (13.5%) of MMO for the last 1000 miles of an OCI, which would render my 0w20 a very thin 0w20 *when new*, but oil on the last 1000 miles of an OCI is *not* new, it's already thinned, already broken down, closer to what one would consider a 15 weight at operating temperatures. So, to prevent thinning it any further, it's best to not add something that's considered a straight 5 weight to that oil, no?

The solution? Mix in a heavier oil. When I was equating MMO with 0 weight, I was mixing 16oz of it with 16oz of 5w30, for roughly a 2.5w15 (again, no grade I've ever heard of, but bear with me). The result of adding this blend to the existing oil (after ensuring it won't result in an overfill, of course) is a minimal viscosity change; an increase if anything. Given the claim that MMO is closer to a straight 5, let's run those numbers again; when we do, we end up with a 5w17.5, or a thin 5w20, something still more acceptable than we would end up with by further thinning an already broken-down oil.

I was neither defending nor decrying the use of additives here, you clearly didn't take the time to do the math yourself, and your source is dubious at best. So, what were you on about, again?
 
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