Ijust remembered why I don't like taking my car to

[Throckmorton]

I can't see how my power steering hose was leaking when the reservoir was full. Even if it was in fact leaking $289 for a 'high-pressure' power steering hose seems like an awful lot.

Also I was surprised that the mechanic did not recommend replacement of the water pump.

At least with other makes of cars those are often replaced along with timing belt.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Throckmorton
I can't see how my power steering hose was leaking when the reservoir was full. Even if it was in fact leaking $289 for a 'high-pressure' power steering hose seems like an awful lot.

Also I was surprised that the mechanic did not recommend replacement of the water pump.

At least with other makes of cars those are often replaced along with timing belt.


On Muranos, a high-pressure steering hose can sometimes $600 to replace.

The shaft seal on my Saturn's PS pump has a small leak; it makes some areas around the pump slightly oily. However, the fluid level is still full.

Everyone says replace the water pump, and I would too. But they usually don't fail until at least 10 years/150k anyway, and by that time you are due for your second timing belt job.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
If people don't pay the ridiculous labor charge then they will learn or go out of business.

No one is worth $120-$160 an hour. Period. Esp for a CAR!



And may I ask what makes you qualified to determine that no one is worth $120-$160/hr?

The market has also said that it is an appropriate price to pay, at least in this area.

Also, keep in mind the costs of operating a legitimate, highly trained auto repair service, not BITOG style hackjob auto repair. Overheard is high for any dealership or independent auto shop. You have to supply customers with loaners, hire service staff, pay to send technicians to factory training classes, etc.


I'm qualified as I'm the CUSTOMER who pays the bill. I'm the one who is going to determine what I feel is the correct amount.

So the "trained" mechanic gets how much? How much for the loaner (which few offer, they offer a van to take you a few miles) How much for the rest of the "stuff"? Here in the end it allows the stealership to buy a NBA franchise so there must be very little profit since those are a dime a dozen.

I've never paid $160 (or $120) per hour for a "tech" and never had a problem getting vehicles to safely go well past 200k. IF I need someone to work on the vehicle, I go to someone who EARNS the correct amount per hour. (and they are not HACKs)

In another thread someone went to the well trained stealership and got 5 quarts of oil in their 4.4qt sump.. Talk about hackjob.

Oh well, you get what you pay for....



I'm with you, Bill! The astronomical rates charged by dealers DO NOT equal quality of work. I've recieved and seen more dealership shoddy repairs than the average "redneck" shop.

 

[crinkles]

I always get excellent service from my toyota dealer/franchise, they are more expensive, but they see things the (arguably more experienced) mechanic across the road "didn't".

 

[yeti]

my neighbor/friend just brought his '02 or '03 windstar back from the dealer for a possible minor recall issue. he asked my opinion of the tranny fluid. stealer told him that the fluid was "shot", and needed replacing immediately. it was a clear red, as i could easily read the markings through the fluid, and smelled like new. he said that he had a fluid exchange done about 20,000 mi. ago. lie # 1.
as well, stealer said that his brake fluid had water in it.the reservoir is tucked in below the upper cowel, and difficult to access. it had a light coating of dirt on it, and the fill caps were dirty - meaning that it wasn't touched.lie #2.
i asked him how he determined that the fluid had water in it, and he answered "who knows", and we both laughed.
as well -- i asked him why the dealer went under the hood to deal with a rear axle issue. again -- we laughed.
it's thieving, lying stealers like this that give all a bad name.around here, for every good dealer story you hear, there are about 4-5 bad ones -- regardless of the brand.that's just the way it is.
as far as $120 - $160 / hr. -- the rates aren't that high around here. if the lord himself was servicing my car -- he wouldn't be worth that kind of money.but, opinions vary.

 

[Stu_Rock]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
The mechanic doesn't get $120/hr. He'd be lucky to get over $20.
This is true. Most of that money goes to rent, insurance, and equipment.

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
No one is worth $120-$160 an hour. Period. Esp for a CAR!
The market has also said that it is an appropriate price to pay, at least in this area.
IF I need someone to work on the vehicle, I go to someone who EARNS the correct amount per hour. (and they are not HACKs)
Well, if you live here and you're not comfortable paying over $100/hr, you're welcome to drive two hours to find a qualified mechanic. I live on the more expensive side of the mountains from Critic and, here, independent shops are $120/hr and dealers are $120/hr to $160/hr.

It's just the way it is. It's the land of million-dollar postage stamp-sized houses--of course other things are going to be expensive. People here just budget for it or DIY. It probably also explains why most cars around here are fairly new.

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
My solution is to not own a car that needs this kind of maintenance.

Agreed!

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Those are high prices.


Says who? On what basis? Because Joe Redneck corner mechanic who has not seen a car newer than 1995 charges $40/hr?

Most dealers and shops here are at about $120/hr. Some are as high as $160/hr.

Originally Posted By: mechtech2

But...
If they did NOT tell you about these things, you might complain.
If they DID tell you about them, you might complain.

Darned if you do, darned if you don't.


Well, a professional mechanic working in a major city says so.
I surely hope that you didn't mean to refer to mechtech2 as "Joe Redneck".
You appear to be an internet surfer.
This guy makes his living working on cars.
Get the difference?

 

[Stu_Rock]

fdcg27, that was too harsh. There's no way to read that in context and come away thinking that Critic thinks mechtech2 is "Joe Redneck."

 

[TLMjared]

I always laugh when people think that the ASE certified master tech is the one who changes their oil at the dealership, most cases (most not all) the c-tech or lube tech does it, who in many (many not all) cases is more or less as well trained as the kid at a quick lube.
I've had dealership oil changes come to my old shop with one thread holding in the drain plug... I think any shop (read as any)can have good and bad technicians, be it a dealer independent or chain. The real trick is to build a relationship with a shop so they know you, you know them and mutually there is trust built and you take care of them by giving them business and they take care of you by performing business for you etc. etc. etc.

just my two cents

 

[bigmike]

I've had good luck at the 2 dealerships I go to. One is a locally owned Honda, the other is a Chevy dealer that is associated with chain of dealerships across central/north Florida.

Neither have upsold or recommended anything that I'd consider unwarranted. I don't care so much about cost of services, but care more about having the right recommendations and the work done to a high standard. Most things I'll do myself and leave the bigger things for them to do.

I suggest a new dealer or service dept.

 

[meep]

local chrysler dealer tried to convince a friend of mine that her '02 T&C needed $500 for two new "brake clutches," one on each front wheel.

After the service estimate for 4 brakes eclipsed $1200, she called her husband and then called me to make sure he and I both agreed, no such thing. So when he went ballistic on the dealer, they shuffled their feet and apologized for the error.

M

 

[Jeepster_nut]

My local stealer charges $90 for the cabin air filter change in a CR-V. Which of course I do myself. The OEM Honda filter is $23. Tell me why the dealer should charge $67 for 3 minutes of time??

The dealer is charging these high rates to offer customers leather couches to sit on, "free" coffee and Wi-Fi access. Keep it...I'll work on my own cars.

 

[Jeepster_nut]

Originally Posted By: TLMjared
I always laugh when people think that the ASE certified master tech is the one who changes their oil at the dealership, most cases (most not all) the c-tech or lube tech does it, who in many (many not all) cases is more or less as well trained as the kid at a quick lube.
I've had dealership oil changes come to my old shop with one thread holding in the drain plug... I think any shop (read as any)can have good and bad technicians, be it a dealer independent or chain. The real trick is to build a relationship with a shop so they know you, you know them and mutually there is trust built and you take care of them by giving them business and they take care of you by performing business for you etc. etc. etc.

just my two cents


Very true. Most people assume its the $20 an hour ASE certified master tech changing your oil and rotating your tires. Not the case AT all. Its the bald faced jiffy lube kid.

 

[M1Accord]

Originally Posted By: Jeepster_nut
My local stealer charges $90 for the cabin air filter change in a CR-V. Which of course I do myself. The OEM Honda filter is $23. Tell me why the dealer should charge $67 for 3 minutes of time??

The dealer is charging these high rates to offer customers leather couches to sit on, "free" coffee and Wi-Fi access. Keep it...I'll work on my own cars.


On my Accord, cabin air filter takes about 2 hrs to replace. It is a stupid design because it requires the removal the glove box (close to 14 screws to hold a tiny plastic container) and really get in there. Why can't they make it where I can just remove 2 screws on the back of the glove back and do a cartridge replace like I would with my air filter? The engineers involved with this design should be kicked hard in the groin for being stupid.

 

[Jeepster_nut]

The new ones are not like that. My 07 and 08 CR-V are no tools required. You unsnap the support strut, then press in on the sides of the glovebox and it drops down. Filter is behind the cover. Press the tabs ,pull it out, its that simple...

I asked the dealer why they are trying to charge me $67 in labor, and pointed out the ease of replacing it. He said "well thats just the price for the service there's nothing I can do".

 

[Vikas]

They charge that because they can. If you are of the type who knows how to change the cabin filter, you would be in a position to determine if it is within your capability or at least have a rough ideas as to what is involved.

People who are NOT mechanically inclined and/or do NOT have trusted friend or a shop will always be taken advantage of.

In some vehicles, spark plugs can be changed in less than 10 minutes total. While in other vehicles, it can indeed take an hour or more. If you don't know the specifics, a shop can charge you $300 to put new plugs. If your car is the one which needs two hours to put the double platinum plugs, you got a fair deal.

Bottom line is that with the knowledge availability on the internet, if dealer can charge a premium price for a routine and easily performed service, more power to him! My basic assumption is that a typical car repair place is out to extract as much money from you as he can and it is up to you to take the appropriate countermeasures. Yes, there are few places which do NOT operate on this principle but those are few.

- Vikas

 

[sciphi]

The dealer we bought the Honda from were slimebags with a low price on the car. The other dealer in the area was much better to work with on some minor warranty issues. I rewarded that level of service by dropping $60 in the service department on routine maintenance items. I've told people to stay away from the one, and go to the other. Will we take the car there for repairs? Not unless we're desperate, since we can do a lot of those ourselves. We may buy another car from the "good" dealer based on the overall positive warranty service experience we had there.

That's voting with the pocketbook.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: TLMjared
I always laugh when people think that the ASE certified master tech is the one who changes their oil at the dealership, most cases (most not all) the c-tech or lube tech does it, who in many (many not all) cases is more or less as well trained as the kid at a quick lube.
I've had dealership oil changes come to my old shop with one thread holding in the drain plug... I think any shop (read as any)can have good and bad technicians, be it a dealer independent or chain. The real trick is to build a relationship with a shop so they know you, you know them and mutually there is trust built and you take care of them by giving them business and they take care of you by performing business for you etc. etc. etc.

just my two cents


It depends on the dealer and how busy they are. Usually if a dealer has an "express service" and a main shop, I would take the car to the main shop as all of the untrained monkeys are working on the express side. For the last two times, I've been lucky enough to have a master tech (mfg certified) doing a LOF on the vehicles.

Originally Posted By: Jeepster_nut
My local stealer charges $90 for the cabin air filter change in a CR-V. Which of course I do myself. The OEM Honda filter is $23. Tell me why the dealer should charge $67 for 3 minutes of time??

It's flat rate. Usually the times are fair, but there are definitely exceptions.


Originally Posted By: Vikas
Bottom line is that with the knowledge availability on the internet, if dealer can charge a premium price for a routine and easily performed service, more power to him! My basic assumption is that a typical car repair place is out to extract as much money from you as he can and it is up to you to take the appropriate countermeasures. Yes, there are few places which do NOT operate on this principle but those are few.

- Vikas


Repairs are usually charged in accordance with flat rate. Generally those times are fair, though the cabin air filter example is the exception to the norm. Maintenance, however, is a different animal. The prices vary significantly. Some dealers, especially luxury car dealers will bill out time at the full labor rate (unlike most dealers that will charge a discounted rate for maintenance) for scheduled maintenance.

 

[jcwit]

Another ideal reason to stay far far away from California. No wonder the have the economy of some countries with the prices they charge. Obvious they live in their own world.

 

[XS650]

Critic, what is the minimum labor time charged for a job at a dealership. The OP said the cabin filter change is 3 minutes, obviously it takes longer than that just to get the part from the parts department and carry it to the car. But what is the shortest book time charged that you are aware of?