If An Oil Doesn't Have Moly...

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What does it use to prevent metal-to-metal contact in situations such as cold starts, where no fluid film is present? Do any of the other additives in oils "plate up" like moly? Reason I ask this is because of my continuing dilema...whether to run Pennz. Long-Life or not. Hmm...wonder why Delo does not have moly in its mix? ...I guess this is such a decision for me because my dad and I used Delo for years in his semis. I'm familiar with Delo, but the moly issue makes me think of becoming a Pennzoil guy. I realize I posted a question like this before, but I'm still looking for more info. By the way, if it helps any, this oil is going into a Chevy pickup with the 4.3L V-6.
 
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I am glad you asked this!!!! I too have been woundering about this in a way. I have been woundering how oils like German Castrol can provide long term protection with such low levels of organic metalic AW/EP add's. Esters are great I like them alot but it seems strange to depend on them for so much of the EP package.
 
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quote:
I have been woundering how oils like German Castrol can provide long term protection with such low levels of organic metalic AW/EP add's.
According to what I've been reading, Euro oils are becoming increasingly more "environmentally friendly." That means the contain less and less poisonous metallic additives like ZDDP and minerals like phosphorus. Soon they'll run on premium virgin olive oil. Or maybe cold-pressed safflower oil. [Wink] [ September 14, 2003, 01:11 AM: Message edited by: moribundman ]
 
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quote:
Esters are great I like them alot but it seems strange to depend on them for so much of the EP package.
Good point John. I think this is Amsoil's approach. For S2k they use a PAO with group V esters and a good dose of ZDDP. Molekule has stated to that Delvac 1 uses the esters in the base oil and it's effective. I think when you look at oils like Amsoil or Mobil 1, the question becomes how much esters are present. Now that M1 has Moly it makes me wonder but with Amsoil I would GUESS that it has more esters then M1. And then there is Redline which has everything!! [Eek!] [ September 14, 2003, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: buster ]
 

Al

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quote:
Originally posted by buster: [QUOTE] And then there is Redline which has everything!! [Eek!]
We have seen some good reports here-but we have also seen some very good reports with oils not having lots of esters and moly. Who knows [I dont know]
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Al:
quote:
Originally posted by buster: [QUOTE] And then there is Redline which has everything!! [Eek!]
We have seen some good reports here-but we have also seen some very good reports with oils not having lots of esters and moly. Who knows [I dont know]

First, Moly is not the end all of antiwear, nor is the zddp. Alot of good reports are present for several reasons. If a person drives reasonable, not doing jackrabbit starts and such, has the right viscosity oil, the correct oil filter which allows for good flow, and doesn't really stand on the throttle, in good weather, then you can get excellent reports on a good standard oil. All of the before mentioned factors play a lot in good wear numbers among other things. Moly and zddp both play a factor in certain situations. Zddp, will plate up much faster than moly and is a great antiwear additive which will help provide a good barrier additive in most situations. Moly, takes a lot more heat to plate up but also is a heavier form of barrier additive and will resist higher levels of stress and in effect, is the backstop of barrier additives. This additive comes into play only under extreme levels of hydrodynamic shearing. Ok, lets address this esters thing. Ester base oil cannot provide barrier protection as zddp and moly does. Esters is a base oil that while hydrodynamic properties exist, plays the main role of engine protection where barrier additives are the last role. Point here, Barrier additives work when esters and any other base oil loses its hydrodynamic film such as when a low oil pressure exists momentarily and pressure is exceeding the films ability to keep two surfaces from touching each other. Esters are a base oil, from my limited knowledge, I've yet to see any ester base oil provide a barrier protection under extreme conditions and act such as a barrier additive. If esters have the same barrier quality's it surely does not hold up to any pressures as zddp/moly would. You will also notice that any synth based oil, pao or ester based is accompanied with a good load of barrier additives such as zddp and or moly. I believe Redline for example is an ester based oil but yet is REALLY LOADED with MOLY and ZDDP. In addition to barrier additives, antimony is another of sorts as well. Keep in mind, that just because an oil has or hasn't got moly, doesn't equate the oil to being good as the barrier additives are only one little part of the whole picture as is the base oils, synth or mineral, esters or pao. jmo and 2cents worth. bob
 
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