andOne application in which they have not worked well is in high-temperature (high-pressure) reciprocating air compressors where valve deposits have been an issue.
Read below Problems-Ive been doing more reading regarding PAO oil suitability for a rotary and have found this artical here: https://www.machinerylubrication.co...dRyK7-yQefVDqTaILvuh1ZM5DTBa7G5j0HwXPirMn838c
Concerned where it says
I understand the principal but you would need to tune for fuel injection on no acceleration else risk running the motor dry and as is this is a street car i dont think its worth going that routeWhich is why most builders will delete the oil metering system and run synthetic oil and premix 100:1
Point-of-Order!Here is a tech bulletin from Penrite dated 2010 https://penriteoil.com.au/assets/tech_pdfs/157 MAZDA ROTARY ENGINES AND SYNTHETICS UPDATED.pdf
In it it states that hpr10, a semi synthetic, can be used in rotaries. However, on their website documentation it states that hpr10 cannot be used in rotaries whereas their PAO synthetics do not have this warning but according to this bulletin they should lol.
The plot thickens..
Starting to feel like this argument goes in circles ad infinitum
Thankyou for the clarification, my point being that on their current document for HPR10 (a group III oil, said to be okay according to that bulletin) has a warning against use in rotary motors. Whereas there is no such warning for their PAO 10 Tenths oil (said to be not okay in the bulletin).Point-of-Order!
Lets stop using the word synthetic, as it's confusing, and instead start talking base oil Groups, as per the BITOG front page (written by Mola)
By MolaKule Introduction: Conventional lubricants are formulated based on mineral oils derived from petroleum. Mineral oils contain many classes of chemical components including aromatics, paraffins, naphthenes, sulfur and nitrogen species, etc, and its composition is determined primarily by the...bobistheoilguy.com
Group I - solvent refining - conventional
Group II - hydrocracking - conventional
Group III - severe Hydrocracking, Hydroisomerization and Hydrotreating - synthetic (by performance), but still from an oil well
Group III+ - Gas To Liquid GTL - synthetic (by production)
Group IV - PAO - synthetic (by production)
Group V - other e.g. Ester, AN alkylated napthalenes - synthetic (by production)
That Penrite document refers to HPR 5, HPR 10 etc, which Penrite call Full Synthetic, but they are Group III oils, which are effectively more highly processed Group II oils. So similar base chemistry with less impurities and better performance (oxidation stability, viscosity index VI, etc). Penrite say this is OK for rotary engines, and I tend to agree.
However Penrite believe that Mazda's reluctance to use synthetics is referring to full Group IV and Group V synthetic oils, or semisynthetic oils that are part Group IV and Group V, and I also tend to agree.
In particular Penrite say to not use their SIN oils in a rotary, their SIN oils were 100% PAO & Ester, and have now been replaced by 10-Tenths which are 100% PAO & Ester.
So taking this advice at face value, its says Yes to Group III oils (and by implication also Group II conventional), but No to Group IV & V oils (which would include Penrite 10-Tenths and Motul 300V-assuming it contains esters).
Yeah they did say HPR10 for a rotary was ok ages ago, now they say no for HPR10. Maybe the formula has changed, maybe they learned more, maybe it confused too many people and they went back to what Mazda said.Thankyou for the clarification, my point being that on their current document for HPR10 (a group III oil, said to be okay according to that bulletin) has a warning against use in rotary motors. Whereas there is no such warning for their PAO 10 Tenths oil (said to be not okay in the bulletin).
Potentially an oversight from their marketing team? Who knows
Hey guys have a question regarding the ideal oil for my built 13b.
Long story short i have a rebuilt 13b with a single turbo aiming for around 400whp. The tuner recommends i run a 15w-50 for good oil pressure and he was recommending motul 300v. Being that im in New Zealand, Penrite sells a similar product in their 10 Tenths range which is also a 100% pao esther blend and is about 40% cheaper so this is what i plan to run.
My main concern with this oil is that it has a flash point of 206 degrees compared to motuls 236 degrees and its antiwear package is around 1800ppm zddp.
Ideally i want an oil with low deposits and historically this has meant Mazda will only endorse full mineral oils, but with a build of this nature i feel like a full synthetic will offer better and more consistent protection.
My concern relates to whether the Penrite's relatively low flashpoint and high zddp content is likely to be an issue for deposit build up.
Also for what its worth i plan to premix and will be running mobils 2t full synthetic 2stroke.
Any insight or clarification on this matter would be greatly appreciated, thank you.
I guess esters are used in turbine oils. Big heat.. Cleanliness is priority there. Thinking about tcw3 ester premix.Ive been doing more reading regarding PAO oil suitability for a rotary and have found this artical here: https://www.machinerylubrication.co...dRyK7-yQefVDqTaILvuh1ZM5DTBa7G5j0HwXPirMn838c
Concerned where it says