I will tear my Bobistheoilguy degree

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Aral is one of the biggest german oil companies This is Aral's view on PAO posted in their ABC lubricants section regarding Polyalpha Olefines Polyalpha Olefines Term for synthetic hydrocarbons which are made by means of the hydrocracking process from paraffin gatsch under utilisation of a specific catalyst technology (polymerisation and copolymerisation of low olefins). So can we assume that the last castle (germany) has fallen in the arms of Group III oils??
 
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quote:
Originally posted by yannis: Aral is one of the biggest german oil companies This is Aral's view on PAO posted in their ABC lubricants section regarding Polyalpha Olefines Polyalpha Olefines Term for synthetic hydrocarbons which are made by means of the hydrocracking process from paraffin gatsch under utilisation of a specific catalyst technology (polymerisation and copolymerisation of low olefins). So can we assume that the last castle (germany) has fallen in the arms of Group III oils??
Except for the "paraffin gatsch" part, this is a pretty accurate description of how PAO is made. Replace "paraffin gatsch" with "ethelene gas" and that's it.
 
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That's why when I have found the composition of Aral 5W-40 I did not want to continue with it though the first 114.000 km in Germany it was exclusively served by Aral products. Looks like only their OW-40 is still really synthetic.
 
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Maybe they crack slack wax or some other paraffin source to make alpha-olephins? You don't need to start with ethylene gas. After all, the Germans practically invented organic chemistry.
 
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Originally posted by Drstressor: Maybe they crack slack wax or some other paraffin source to make alpha-olephins? You don't need to start with ethylene gas.
Huh? Name another feedstock for PAO besides ethylene gas.
 

yannis

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As you can see below Aral refers to the 5W40 with the term "High-end high-performance motor oil with Aral Synthesis Technology with potential for extended oil-drain intervals" whereas the 0W40 is qualified as "Top-of-the-line fully synthetic high-performance motor oil for extended oil-drain intervals." My main concern is the use of term PAO in group III oils.Is this possible? Aral HighTronic SAE 5W-40 Applications: High-end high-performance motor oil with Aral Synthesis Technology with potential for extended oil-drain intervals. Helps to save fuel and to protect the environment. Large performance reserves even with maximum permissible oil-drain intervals and in engines with low oil consumption. Suitable for all four-stroke gasoline and Diesel (incl. direct injection and turbocharged) car engines. Required for Saab 9-3 Sport-Sedan diesel motor. Specification: ACEA A3 , B3 , B4 API SJ/CF Approval: Mercedes-Benz specification for service product sheet 229.3 BMW Approval Longlife-98 Porsche Approval VW-Norm 502 00 and 505 00 Issue 1/97 Opel GM-LL-B-025 Technical Data SAE-grade DIN 51511 5W-40 ASTM-Color DIN ISO 2049 2,5 Density at 15 °C g/ml DIN 51757 0,855 Viscosity 100 °C mm²/s DIN 51562 13,9 40 °C mm²/s DIN 51562 79 -25 °C mPa·s DIN 51377 3350 Viscosity Index DIN ISO 2909 190 Flash point COC °C DIN ISO 2592 225 Pour point °C DIN ISO 3016 - 36 Remarks: All data is subject to development for the product and the production process. Aral SuperTronic SAE 0W-40 Applications: Top-of-the-line fully synthetic high-performance motor oil for extended oil-drain intervals. Extremely low viscosity at low temperatures for big fuel savings. Fuel savings of up to 10% during cold-running operation. With average fuel savings of 3% it contributes to the preservation of resources and to the protection by means of notably reduced emissions. The new formula offers larger performance reserves even under extended oil-drain intervals and in engines with very low oil consumption. Developed for four-stroke gasoline and Diesel car engines. (incl. direct injection and turbocharged). Specification: ACEA A3 , B3 , B4 API SJ / CF Approval: Mercedes-Benz Specifications for service products sheet 229.3 BMW Approval Longlife-98 Porsche Approval VW-Norm 502 00 and 505 00 Issue 1/97 VW-Norm 503 01 , Issue 9/99 Technical Data SAE-grade DIN 51511 0W-40 ASTM-Color DIN ISO 2049 2,5 Density at 15 °C g/ml DIN 51757 0,860 Viscosity 100 °C mm²/s DIN 51562 13,2 40 °C mm²/s DIN 51562 73,0 -30 °C mPa·s DIN 51377 2900 Viscosity Index DIN ISO 2909 185 Flash point COC °C DIN ISO 2592 > 230 Pour point °C DIN ISO 3016 < -54 Remarks: All data is subject to development for the product and the production process.
 
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Originally posted by yannis: My main concern is the use of term PAO in group III oils.Is this possible?
I don't see where they are doing this. If you're referring to the quote from the Aral web site above, I think this is a poor Babelfish translation of the German and is nothing more than a description of how PAO is made. It has nothing to do with Group III just because the word "hydrocracked" is used. Believe it or not, the catalytic processes used to produce "HC" and PAO are not all that dissimilar. The feedstocks are different (one being VGO the other being ethylene gas), but the processes are similar.
 

yannis

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The answer is hidden in this definition of paraffin: paraffin Common name for alkane, any member of the series of hydrocarbons with the general formula CnH2n+2. The lower members are gases, such as methane (marsh or natural gas). The middle ones (mainly liquid) form the basis of petrol, kerosene, and lubricating oils, while the higher ones (paraffin waxes) are used in ointment and cosmetic bases. While an other insufficient definition states that paraffin is : white, more-or-less translucent, odorless, tasteless, waxy solid. It melts between 47°C and 65°C and is insoluble in water but soluble in ether, benzene, and certain esters. Paraffin is unaffected by most common chemical reagents but burns readily in air. Obtained from petroleum during refining , it is used in candles, for coating paper, and for various other purposes. Chemically, paraffin is a mixture of high-molecular-weight alkanes , i.e., saturated hydrocarbons with the general formula C n H 2n+2 , where n is an integer between 22 and 27. According to the following article a lubricant base stock created in the gas to oil conversion is called an ISO paraffin. machinery lubrication article
 
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PAO Typical Synthesis as I understand it: Naptha is derived from crude oil. (4 to 8 carbon chain alkane) Naptha is cracked into ethylene. (two carbon chain) . . .Or ethylene is synthesized from natural gas (methane) or from ethane. Ethylene is oligomerized into decene. (10 carbon chain) Decene (an alpha olefin)is polymerized into PAO (50 carbon chain, I think) It is a wasteful and energy intensive process, particularly the production of ethylene. Group III basestocks can come very close to PAO performance with much less waste of resources. The major difference is in pour point. Unless you are operating under artic conditions, I can't see any real need for PAO. [ January 07, 2006, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: BigAl ]
 
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I may be mistaken here, but from what I can tell, there is not one single common oil spec that cannot be met by a predominantely Group III oil.
 
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