I want to like Tesla...but...

[UncleDave]

Still searching for someone to hit the happy medium between screen based and physical controls and displays.

The S with its gauge cluster was far superior to the 3/Y.

I feel no closer to a lone control screen than I do a dozens of discreet buttons all over the cabin. (Lexus Honda, MB)

 

[UncleDave]

It's almost hilarious to compare and contrast a Dragon with a Soyuz which looks a lot like an Apollo era vehicle.

Kudos to Soyuz's incredible flight safety record (that we know of). We hope Dragon can match or beat it.

I didnt see anything resembling the soyuz workload for Bob and Doug, if anything they watched the flight unfold.

 

[edyvw]

Still searching for someone to hit the happy medium between screen based and physical controls and displays.

The S with its gauge cluster was far superior to the 3/Y.

I feel no closer to a lone control screen than I do a dozens of discreet buttons all over the cabin. (Lexus Honda, MB)

BMW 3/4 series have screen, manual buttons for max AC etc. and still have iDrive with manual controls.
I can’t remember VW ID4, it has beed several months since I drove it, but I think it has heafty amount if physical buttons.

 

[Revving2Redline]

Would never drive EV vehicle. Grew up in the drilling industry with my dad,uncle and grandfather. He even drilled in the Middle East during the 1990s. I like the sounds of a motor just like the guys in Gone in 60 seconds. I want to shift a lever, push in a clutch and eye the instrument panel to make sure all is okay. Drive the EV if you like. But I would be grateful if the greens would take their broken wind turbines and junk and quit throwing them in my hometown in Casper,Wyoming. I too am glad that Wyoming is fighting to ban them in our state completely.

 

[Ws6]

Would never drive EV vehicle. Grew up in the drilling industry with my dad,uncle and grandfather. He even drilled in the Middle East during the 1990s. I like the sounds of a motor just like the guys in Gone in 60 seconds. I want to shift a lever, push in a clutch and eye the instrument panel to make sure all is okay. Drive the EV if you like. But I would be grateful if the greens would take their broken wind turbines and junk and quit throwing them in my hometown in Casper,Wyoming. I too am glad that Wyoming is fighting to ban them in our state completely.

I grew up with a carbureted cammed up 5.0 and a Tremec in the tunnel. I get it. But once you actually do drive an EV, perception shifts. I do miss the sound though, that is legit! EV has nothing to do with green. Just like M855A1 had nothing to do with green. Both are just better products and organizations will leverage Congress for funding however they can. They are, both, ironically, slightly more green than their predecessors though, if only by a bit.

 

[Ws6]

Do shops charge specific rate for BMW? As far as I know, shops go per hour.
And, tell me, what is exactly $10,000, since you obviously have experience with this.

Our local BMW shop is about $140 an hour. Temp controlled, and all torque is done with a wrench, not tq limiters and a gun.

 

[dishdude]

Lexus is not example of ergonomics. No Asian vehicle is. It is like they play lottery when deciding where buttons will go.

Just stuff it in one of those blanks.

 

[edyvw]

Our local BMW shop is about $140 an hour. Temp controlled, and all torque is done with a wrench, not tq limiters and a gun.

My point is, let’s say indy shop, will charge same per hr rate.
I think here it is $125.

 

[edyvw]

Just stuff it in one of those blanks.

View attachment 137208

Lol. Yes.

 

[Ws6]

My point is, let’s say indy shop, will charge same per hr rate.
I think here it is $125.

I don't do the indy thing. If you can't afford to own the car, then don't, is my take. Im not letting "just as good as..." wrench on my stuff. If an issue occurs, it goes back to the dude with current brand training and tools.

 

[edyvw]

I don't do the indy thing. If you can't afford to own the car, then don't, is my take. Im not letting "just as good as..." wrench on my stuff. If an issue occurs, it goes back to the dude with current brand training and tools.

LOL.
I personally, do not let anyone unless I absolutely do not have time.
Therefore, by your calculation, I cannot own anything. I might just start watching YouTube and how people drive.

 

[Ws6]

LOL.
I personally, do not let anyone unless I absolutely do not have time.
Therefore, by your calculation, I cannot own anything. I might just start watching YouTube and how people drive.

You drive a pair of old beaters what, 10+ years old? Indy probably has more experience with your cars than a current dealer or yourself.

 

[edyvw]

You drive a pair of old beaters what, 10+ years old? Indy probably has more experience with your cars than a current dealer or yourself.

I drive 2021 too, and yet, I do things.
And what makes you think my cars are beaters? Where did you get that idea?

 

[UncleDave]

I don't do the indy thing. If you can't afford to own the car, then don't, is my take. Im not letting "just as good as..." wrench on my stuff. If an issue occurs, it goes back to the dude with current brand training and tools.

It's interesting to me that you you automatically infer an Indy as being inferior to a dealer.

I've had good work done at dealers and at Indies, overall my experience with Indies has been overwhelmingly positive.

When I pick an indy I effectively pick the guy working on my car, at a dealer this isn't usually a choice I get to make - you can get the new guy.

 

[NismoNVT]

There is a lot of misinformation out there. The naysayers embrace the sensationalism.
If these cars were so bad, why is their customer satisfaction so much better than any other car company?

Why is Land Rover still in business and able to charge 6 figures on some models? Their vehicles are considered piles of rolling garbage, with each new vehicle coming with its own pre-reserved dealer service bay and service associate who each new owner will become intimately familiar with throughout the ownership period.

Again, fit and quality standards are well documented by popular industry companies, most notably Sandy Munro/Lean Design. But as a lot of their associates have pointed out in their tear down/review videos, most folks wont notice the fit and quality issues because they dont have a frame of reference or an extensive experience with vehicle mfgin. They'll simply see shiny new car, with a new form of propulsion, Elon musk's vision etc etc marketing 101.

The quality of Fremont vehicles, is actually better then their Austin vehicles as of late 2022.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Why is Land Rover still in business and able to charge 6 figures on some models? Their vehicles are considered piles of rolling garbage, with each new vehicle coming with its own pre-reserved dealer service bay and service associate who each new owner will become intimately familiar with throughout the ownership period.

Again, fit and quality standards are well documented by popular industry companies, most notably Sandy Munro/Lean Design. But as a lot of their associates have pointed out in their tear down/review videos, most folks wont notice the fit and quality issues because they dont have a frame of reference or an extensive experience with vehicle mfgin. They'll simply see shiny new car, with a new form of propulsion, Elon musk's vision etc etc marketing 101.

The quality of Fremont vehicles, is actually better then their Austin vehicles as of late 2022.

Perhaps read a little more about Munro on Tesla.

 

[Ws6]

It's interesting to me that you you automatically infer an Indy as being inferior to a dealer.

I've had good work done at dealers and at Indies, overall my experience with Indies has been overwhelmingly positive.

When I pick an indy I effectively pick the guy working on my car, at a dealer this isn't usually a choice I get to make - you can get the new guy.

The indy often lacks some of the training and tools of the actual dealer, as well as experience in working on newer models that the dealer has. Why would you pay to have something done when you can have it done for free? So the dealer has at LEAST 3/36 experience more than the indy, for newer models.

If you have an older vehicle, the indy might be better, as they are more familiar with how the vehicles age as they go less and less to the dealer.

 

[Ws6]

I drive 2021 too, and yet, I do things.
And what makes you think my cars are beaters? Where did you get that idea?

And do you take your 2021 to the indy?

They may not be beaters. Are the tires 4/32 or better? Do all of the features and buttons work as they did when new? Is the interior in good shape? Paint corrected every several years, or wrapped? Undercarriage and suspension free of rust? Proper PM intervals observed?

If yes to all of that, then I'd consider it a well maintained machine.

 

[NismoNVT]

Perhaps read a little more about Munro on Tesla.

Again how many car owners taking delivery will be carrying a micrometer, measuring device to check panel gaps, etc issues or have another Tesla model Y ready to compare each and every single detail.

 

[NismoNVT]

The indy often lacks some of the training and tools of the actual dealer, as well as experience in working on newer models that the dealer has. Why would you pay to have something done when you can have it done for free? So the dealer has at LEAST 3/36 experience more than the indy, for newer models.

If you have an older vehicle, the indy might be better, as they are more familiar with how the vehicles age as they go less and less to the dealer.

To each their own but I disagree with that generalization. I believe in quality of work on the first try, rather then rely on brand cache/warranty. For instance, handing over a new car to a dealership for a prepaid oil change (ie Toyotacare) has not been a consistent experience, where some owners come back with overfilled engines and generally a sloppy engine bay left with oil stains etc. This doesnt mean Indys cannot be faulted for the same thing.

At the end of the day, a qualified and quality mechanic is what I look for, regardless of where they work.