I wanna use a non VW approved "thin" oil in my GTI
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To me (owner of a 2012 VW Passat with the 2.5L I5), the bigger question is whether or not the 502.X oils are really any better or different for a shorter OCI than a high quality synthetic like say PP or M1 that's not 502 certified. I kind of have the impression that most of the certification is for long OCI, not for special engine protection.
I mean, I seriously doubt that if I ran say... M1 5w-30 on 5000 mile OCIs that anything serious would pop up. VW engines aren't made out of fairy dust and spun sugar, and there's nothing about the way my wife drives the car that would put any special pressure on the engine.
And the big advantage would be that she can take it just about anywhere and get that oil change with no issue, while for 502.x oil, it's the dealer, or some specialty European car shop, or me doing it (which ain't going to happen; I have neither the time nor the inclination).
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
He's smarter than the engineers who designed the thing.
Originally Posted By: dareo
I've thought about M1 0w30 instead of 0W40 for my golf but im too scared! Even though i know the oil temps never get above like 230f under hard driving.
I typically arrive at work just as the oil temps hit 210 or 220, so its never really fully hot for very long. The gas mileage would likely be better on 0w30. I took an hour long hard canyon drive this weekend and saw an all time high of 230 oil temp. That was a twisty hill climb in 2nd.
I'm going to stay 0w40 but i must admit the temptation is there.
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Let's not forget the turbo charger.
The best oil for a modern German car is one that carries the most German Manufacturer approvals. 502/505 is minimum required, but if the oil carries 502/505, LL01, M229.5, and Porsche A40 then you can be assured of excellent protection in all situations.
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Let's not forget the turbo charger.
The best oil for a modern German car is one that carries the most German Manufacturer approvals. 502/505 is minimum required, but if the oil carries 502/505, LL01, M229.5, and Porsche A40 then you can be assured of excellent protection in all situations.
Originally Posted By: dareo
I typically arrive at work just as the oil temps hit 210 or 220, so its never really fully hot for very long. The gas mileage would likely be better on 0w30. I took an hour long hard canyon drive this weekend and saw an all time high of 230 oil temp. That was a twisty hill climb in 2nd.
I'm going to stay 0w40 but i must admit the temptation is there.
The hill was climbed anywhere in the 2s 3s 4s sometimes 5k+ rpm depending on the sharpness of the turns. I wasn't on throttle the whole time since i had to slow a bit for the turn, then power out of it. Temp outside was a cool 55f or so.
I think the oil temp is related to engine load so if i'm going 80 in 5th vs 80 in 3rd i doubt it will add much more heat to the oil. When i do my 40 mile highway runs it never gets above the 210-220 range even with A/C and as fast as traffic allows driving.
Originally Posted By: dareo
I typically arrive at work just as the oil temps hit 210 or 220, so its never really fully hot for very long. The gas mileage would likely be better on 0w30. I took an hour long hard canyon drive this weekend and saw an all time high of 230 oil temp. That was a twisty hill climb in 2nd.
I'm going to stay 0w40 but i must admit the temptation is there.
Originally Posted By: dareo
The hill was climbed anywhere in the 2s 3s 4s sometimes 5k+ rpm depending on the sharpness of the turns. I wasn't on throttle the whole time since i had to slow a bit for the turn, then power out of it. Temp outside was a cool 55f or so.
I think the oil temp is related to engine load so if i'm going 80 in 5th vs 80 in 3rd i doubt it will add much more heat to the oil. When i do my 40 mile highway runs it never gets above the 210-220 range even with A/C and as fast as traffic allows driving.
Doing 65MPH in my Caprice, if I stop and drop a thermocouple down the dipstick hole, I get 105C...same trip in "2" at 4,000RPM, and 129-135C has been seen in quite mild ambient temperatures.
Not this is the oil that's coming off the crank and down the valley, not the bulk oil temperature that has already lost a lot of heat to the the ambient (sump temperatures with a heat gun are around 15-20C lower)Shannow, interesting graph, would you say the heat from higher RPM operation is due to the pumping friction or due to the engine making higher HP up there?
I ask cause in a turbo golf it makes peak torque at 1600 and has a fairly flat torque curve, so high output can occur at nearly all RPMs. Diesels are similar and often exaggerate this in EGT temps, like pulling a hill in 6th instead of 5th is hotter that the higher RPM pull.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Nope, oil temperature is more related to RPM than load. Here's big end temp on a test engine (fitted out with thermocouples) with three bulk oil temperatures (80C, 125C, and 150C)...you can see that the temperature rise has more to do with RPM than load...the top group there is no continuation of the full load line, as the bearing failed.
Doing 65MPH in my Caprice, if I stop and drop a thermocouple down the dipstick hole, I get 105C...same trip in "2" at 4,000RPM, and 129-135C has been seen in quite mild ambient temperatures.
Not this is the oil that's coming off the crank and down the valley, not the bulk oil temperature that has already lost a lot of heat to the the ambient (sump temperatures with a heat gun are around 15-20C lower)
Doing 65MPH in my Caprice, if I stop and drop a thermocouple down the dipstick hole, I get 105C...same trip in "2" at 4,000RPM, and 129-135C has been seen in quite mild ambient temperatures.
Not this is the oil that's coming off the crank and down the valley, not the bulk oil temperature that has already lost a lot of heat to the the ambient (sump temperatures with a heat gun are around 15-20C lower) Originally Posted By: dareo
The hill was climbed anywhere in the 2s 3s 4s sometimes 5k+ rpm depending on the sharpness of the turns. I wasn't on throttle the whole time since i had to slow a bit for the turn, then power out of it. Temp outside was a cool 55f or so.
I think the oil temp is related to engine load so if i'm going 80 in 5th vs 80 in 3rd i doubt it will add much more heat to the oil. When i do my 40 mile highway runs it never gets above the 210-220 range even with A/C and as fast as traffic allows driving.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
The other way to look at the graph is, lower RPM = lower oil temp therefore thick oil is not needed.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
The other way to look at the graph is, lower RPM = lower oil temp therefore thick oil is not needed.
Or unless you want this to happen.
When I lived in Germany, I maybe spent 10% of my time driving on the autobahn, and most of it a reasonable 130kph. There is a window for extended high-speed driving that thicker oil gives you, but it is not the only consideration when the a German OEM specifies an oil. They take into account their engine design and expected performance in ALL situations.
Use a thin oil if you want to. There is no money to be saved and nothing to be gained.Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Let's not forget the turbo charger.
The best oil for a modern German car is one that carries the most German Manufacturer approvals. 502/505 is minimum required, but if the oil carries 502/505, LL01, M229.5, and Porsche A40 then you can be assured of excellent protection in all situations.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
The other way to look at the graph is, lower RPM = lower oil temp therefore thick oil is not needed.
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