I think the era of the wet cell is going to be over soon
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Originally Posted by P10crew
I can tell you that in power substations we went AGM then valve regulated and now we are going full steam to get all of those out of our system and right back to flooded. These batteries are 20 grand a pop and nothing lasts like a flooded lead acid battery plant.
As far as LI .... I love them for my battery tools but when you read about what the mining of the lithium is doing i really wonder if we are not screwing up there too. I'm happy with flooded automotive batteries and with the service they have provided me.
I'm interested in this discussion, because as I stated, I need off-grid power while camping (boondocking)...NOT at an electrified camping ground / RV park. So I am coming at this from a "deep cycle" perspective.
I've heard the arguments for FLA with vent caps, and where the owner periodically checks specific gravity and electrolyte level, visually check for sulfation, and perhaps can even "boost" the electrolyte. This is not available in the other technologies. I believe there are multiple advantages besides price.
I've heard the arguments that certain Gel-cell batteries are great for deep cycle, better than most AGM.
I've heard (and invested in) the arguments that certain AGM's are more temperature-tolerant than Gel's. Both Gel's and AGM's can be oriented in multiple ways (FLA's need to be upright only). One problem is many so-called "deep-cycle" batteries are not really optimized for true RV house battery usage. One brand, LifeLine (and probably its cousin the SunXTender) appears better optimized, but their price reflects their uniqueness, perceived or actual. (Good for them, I guess, and I may be a future customer).
Most charge accessories are compatible with these technologies (meaning solar charge controllers and DC-to-DC chargers which work off alternators, as well as AC-to-DC chargers). The better ones have different voltage settings for the "smart charging". In other words, the charge profile can be tailored to the battery type. I'm not sure all charge controllers are compatible with lithium, but am all ears, although some controllers (unfortunately, not mine) are fully programmable, so could be adaptable.
Lithium's have weight advantage, and supposedly can better withstand deep discharge, allegedly resulting in longer lifespans. There are low temperature concerns, though most "packaged lithium offerings are built around clusters of individual cells, along with some BMS (battery monitor system) and possibly some "warming" circuitry (which runs off the batteries, eventually depleting them???)
There is also a carbon foam technology which I think is a version of AGM, with maybe only 1 manufacturer.
So, if anyone has better Lithium information, especially compatibility between charge systems and lithium batteries, and or evidence of better price parity, I am all ears. If folks have preferences for particular brands, also intereste, but please elaborate why.
Also, if anything I said is wrong, or questionable, call me out, I'm trying to learn about this stuff myself.
OK, I guess I just hijacked this thread. Sorry. Is there another thread I should be viewing instead?
I can tell you that in power substations we went AGM then valve regulated and now we are going full steam to get all of those out of our system and right back to flooded. These batteries are 20 grand a pop and nothing lasts like a flooded lead acid battery plant.
As far as LI .... I love them for my battery tools but when you read about what the mining of the lithium is doing i really wonder if we are not screwing up there too. I'm happy with flooded automotive batteries and with the service they have provided me.
I'm interested in this discussion, because as I stated, I need off-grid power while camping (boondocking)...NOT at an electrified camping ground / RV park. So I am coming at this from a "deep cycle" perspective.
I've heard the arguments for FLA with vent caps, and where the owner periodically checks specific gravity and electrolyte level, visually check for sulfation, and perhaps can even "boost" the electrolyte. This is not available in the other technologies. I believe there are multiple advantages besides price.
I've heard the arguments that certain Gel-cell batteries are great for deep cycle, better than most AGM.
I've heard (and invested in) the arguments that certain AGM's are more temperature-tolerant than Gel's. Both Gel's and AGM's can be oriented in multiple ways (FLA's need to be upright only). One problem is many so-called "deep-cycle" batteries are not really optimized for true RV house battery usage. One brand, LifeLine (and probably its cousin the SunXTender) appears better optimized, but their price reflects their uniqueness, perceived or actual. (Good for them, I guess, and I may be a future customer).
Most charge accessories are compatible with these technologies (meaning solar charge controllers and DC-to-DC chargers which work off alternators, as well as AC-to-DC chargers). The better ones have different voltage settings for the "smart charging". In other words, the charge profile can be tailored to the battery type. I'm not sure all charge controllers are compatible with lithium, but am all ears, although some controllers (unfortunately, not mine) are fully programmable, so could be adaptable.
Lithium's have weight advantage, and supposedly can better withstand deep discharge, allegedly resulting in longer lifespans. There are low temperature concerns, though most "packaged lithium offerings are built around clusters of individual cells, along with some BMS (battery monitor system) and possibly some "warming" circuitry (which runs off the batteries, eventually depleting them???)
There is also a carbon foam technology which I think is a version of AGM, with maybe only 1 manufacturer.
So, if anyone has better Lithium information, especially compatibility between charge systems and lithium batteries, and or evidence of better price parity, I am all ears. If folks have preferences for particular brands, also intereste, but please elaborate why.
Also, if anything I said is wrong, or questionable, call me out, I'm trying to learn about this stuff myself.
OK, I guess I just hijacked this thread. Sorry. Is there another thread I should be viewing instead?
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Very good post man ^^^^
If it were me... For the price of eggs....
I would go with a thin plate pure lead aka TPPL AGM X-2 battery made by Northstar... Prices around $300 per battery but are truly made for deep cycling... If properly maintained can give 700-1000+ deep cycles... Depth of discharge down to 30-50 percent and charged properly these batteries can actually do this... A member on here has done exactly this with a X-2 battery made by Northstar.
If it were me... For the price of eggs....
I would go with a thin plate pure lead aka TPPL AGM X-2 battery made by Northstar... Prices around $300 per battery but are truly made for deep cycling... If properly maintained can give 700-1000+ deep cycles... Depth of discharge down to 30-50 percent and charged properly these batteries can actually do this... A member on here has done exactly this with a X-2 battery made by Northstar.
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