I see no difference between Dino and Synthetic oil.

Messages
1,011
Location
Montgomery, Alabama
I have seen the above posted here and other boards where the usual line is I have used xxx dino for all my cars and never had a problem and I can't see spending more money for synthetic. Or, I used synthetics and didn't notice any difference in wear for my 3k change interval so I am sticking to dino. Yet I wonder what it is that is expected. I have noticed many people who run a flush or autoRx and immediately notice how much their gas mileage picks up and how much quieter and smoother their car runs afterwards. These flushes or cleaners do not increase fuel economy, they merely return the car back to its optimum state. It was the dino oil that caused the lower fuel economy in the first place. This point is lost on most. In todays world of gas prices approaching $2 a gallon, this lost efficiency is definitely a cost associated with using dino. I have not seen anyone who has used a PAO synthetic use autoRx or a flush and come away saying they had an increase in fuel economy. I have seen many say they switched to synthetic and did notice an increase in fuel economy. Extended drains make the cost between dino and PAOs negligible. Inceased fuel economy puts the synthetics in the lead. The extra protection at temperature extemes are a bonus in the cost comparison. The only benefit that I ever see people who use dino to justify using dino is that its price is less. Yes, but what are the costs associated with the lower price? I run Amsoil because I can't justify spending more money over the long term using cheap dino. That and I like my free time.
 
Messages
236
Location
Oceanside NY
Gas has approached & surpassed the $2 buck a gal. figure here on long Island for the most part. Interesting post , but I wonder if some folk feel they're maintaining thier vehicle better with 3k dino changes. I'm back to doing a 50/50 mix again due to the synthetic seems to help keep my lifters quit.. I guess it depends on your situation , type of driving, miles, climate. ect ect.. [I dont know]
 
Iused QS Dino 5/30 for 59,000 miles in my 2000SC2 with no problems. I then changed to m1 5/30 and consumed 1 quart in 5,000 miles. Next change i went to m1 10/30 and actually consumed 1.5 quarts in 4800 miles. I then changed back to the QS 5/30 and over 3,000 miles used none. Yes the car runs slightly noisier/rougher but the added consumption of m1 did not make it a cost effective alternative even with the extended drain. my car sees about 50,000 miles a ear mostly highway and seems to prefer the Dino
 
Messages
9,448
Location
USA
It realy does not matter what your driveing coundition. Synthetic oil will almost always leaves an engine cleaner then dino oil under the exact same conditions. By cleaner I am talking about the entire engine especialy ring pack and egr systems. Now that we are seeing displacement on demand and VVTIL systems all being run of hydralic oil pressure the need for clean engine is pairmont. I have seen seals look perfectly supple after years of use with synthetic while the same engine with dino would have dry rotted seals.
 
Messages
1,533
Location
Ephraim
Originally posted by wulimaster: --- In todays world of gas prices approaching $2 a gallon, this lost efficiency is definitely a cost associated with using dino. --- R: If Gas was $500 a gallon, I'd still use my current Dino because it would give me the same or better MPG of a Syn. And I have never tried any product that increases my milage for more than about 1-2K, and it is not usually anything to consider, with the return not ever made back. Even If the oil I use would not totally pay for itself (but it does) I'd dtill use it for several reasons, that equate to more money than the cost of the synthetic. --- Extended drains make the cost between dino and PAOs negligible. Inceased fuel economy puts the synthetics in the lead. - R: I agree to disagree! And I'm not picking on you. It's just that most people class all Dinos in one lump. There are other things you are not looking at or considered. --- The extra protection at temperature extemes are a bonus in the cost comparison. R: Very possible. But in my case it probably would not last for more than a few minutes on all but a handful of days, I'm in Houston... and if I was not I's always have the option of a lighter weight and allow it to warm-up. The only benefit that I ever see people who use dino to justify using dino is that its price is less. Yes, but what are the costs associated with the lower price? --- R: There are many but price is King! There are no costs only paybacks or Return on Investment if you use the right quality oil... that is if compared to the Industry as a massive marketing group to the general public, and there are still paybacks even if there were no $$$ Hey, I calculate my MPG out there, I calculate how product X has done. For instance From Mile 358529 to mile 378671 my overall mpg was 23.90785873 From mile377371 to 378671 switching from K&N back to OEM my MPG was 23.90893309 Since my oil leak has increased the last 6194 miles it has dropped to 23.67214696 from the previous 13930 Miles where it was 24.01418279, the oil leak actually averages worse MPG. In fact whenever I see my Overall MGP move anywhere other than just a little I start figuring what's up. A pilot friend and a few others think I'm nuts because anything from .2-.4 of a MPG and I come unglued. If I was not using the dino I use or the fuel additive I use I'd have my MPG in the high Teens to LOW 20's, my truck has always been a terror on gas, I donno why, maybe it's my Lead Foot :-] Anyhow, I agree in most to what you say for most any oil out on the market where the average "GUY" would find in the auto store, but I'm talking about a premium dino. And unless things have changed that much, I have run at one time 300K in M1 and did not see enough improvement to warrant the use, not that it was bad, but it still allowed wear and it varnished, and so on, just at an extended rate over a dino, For me, I found out through the school of hard knocks and low pocketbook to use the very best oil that you can use which will actually pay you back for using it... because in the long run you will be paying more one way...Okay, maybe I do sacrifice some benefits of a Syn, but the $$$ and other benefits I see do rival them, that has just been the facts for me. Anyhow, even if you don't, IMHO I believe I have discovered, that MPG aside, ANY oil out there that's decent, can be used as long as you flush once and awhile... the added benefit with my Dino is that after 300K it's looked better than the Syn's, so I'm sticking with it.. But I'm in agreement with most over the counter stuff, you are right on target.
 
Messages
254
Location
Denver
quote:
Originally posted by Robbie Alexander: For me, I found out through the school of hard knocks and low pocketbook to use the very best oil that you can use which will actually pay you back for using it... because in the long run you will be paying more one way...Okay, maybe I do sacrifice some benefits of a Syn, but the $$$ and other benefits I see do rival them, that has just been the facts for me.
Robbie, Don't fall out of your chair when I say this [Big Grin] , but I actually agree with you here. There are some situations where there's no point in using a synthetic. Having an engine with 300K and an oil leak, you would just be pouring good money on the ground (literally and figuratively) using a synthetic. Most of the engine wear that a synthetic is designed to prevent has already taken place by 300K anyway. Whatever dino you're using, if you're happy with it, I'd just keep on using it. [Cheers!] P.S. However, if you ever trade it in on a new vehicle, let us know, so we can harass you into putting some Mobil 1 in there. [Wink]
 
Messages
190
Location
Minnesota
From 1989 till now, 2003, I use to be an absolute Synthetic oil believer. But now with the new SL ratings the regular oils have really come up to MUCH BETTER QUALITY. After reading many various oil analysis here and other places one cannot say with absolute certainty that Synthetics (Mobil 1, Amsoil, Red Line) always come out on top. As I said I have used synthetic oil from 1989 till now, 2003. First Amsoil, then Mobil 1 (it took me a while to switch that, perception is reality you know). But now I am comparing Pennzoil 5W30 multigrade regular oil, in the car now, from Mobil 1 10W30 (past 0W and 5W30). I will have to put some more miles to give a better comparison, but so far all I can say is "I am glad that I tried this!" Oil pressure is up slightly and the mpg is 2 mpg better now than with the Mobil 1 10W30. The car is even running just a little cooler also. Lastly, I read many talking about the high miles on synthetics as opposed to the regular, but remember we are now dealing with much better dino's because of the SL ratings, so we must keep that in mind when talking about the miles because the newer rating is only about 2 and half years old. Good Day, Steven
 
Messages
9,448
Location
USA
Icruse it is true that some oils are much better but some are only marginly better. I think the additive packages have improved alot but the base stocks have in alot of reguards stayed about the same. Sure their are more GII and GII+ base stocks being used but not acrossed the board. Remember wear numbers are only half of the game. If you plan on keeping your car 7,10,15 years the long term deposits from dino oils in the ring pack, pickup screen, oil galleys, emission system and lifters really become an issue. EGR valves are not cheap and niether is decarboning or top cylinder cleaning etc.. on a regular basis. As the oils keep getting thiner and OCI's keep getting longer I think these issues will become evident. Now if a good GIII oil was produced and marketed as a good dino oil then alot of these same issues go away. Eventuly the greedy blood sucking scum bags that push GIII as synthetic will be forced to sell GIII at down to earth prices. This will also force them to compete on a level playing field with companys that have been honest enough to sell a true synthetic at the same or cheaper price point!! My prediction for this to happen is 10 years. Ester and PAO based oils are going to make so much progress in the next 10 years that these scum bags selling GIII as true synthetic will not be able to compete and will be forced to do the right thing. To some extent we are seeing this happen with Castrol Syntec 0W30 German SLX. P.S. Again I do not have a problem with GIII oils. I only have issue with how dishonest the companys that sell GIII as synthetic are! If I could get a good GIII for $2.00 a quart I would use GIII oil in almost everything and would not look back!
 
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