I remember

Messages
6,359
Location
New Braunfels
When this forum was technical and not marketing oriented. I remeber when we had actual tribologist posting. I remember when brands and marketing was considered below the discussion. I understand that this forum is considered an "asset". But it used to be an asset to the members. I am increasingly aware that the focus of the asset is more and more upon the owner than the members. It has become more of a brand [censored] match than an educational platform. This used to be the place where we could gain knowledge on engine oils and other lubricants. Where we has more inquiasitive questions upon true pros than there were neophytes pretinding to be pros. I am beggining to question the credibility of this forum, the big name advertisers and the ;oss of our resident professionals from the postings. I am not learning anymore. I am discussing marketing gimmicks and shenanigans dealing nothing with tech. Is anyone else experiencing a general sense of dissatisfaction withthe current situation?
 

Bill in Utah

Staff member
Messages
12,849
Location
UT
Agree 100%. When BITOG started, we shared what we are doing and how we did it. Now all it is either "XX for XX miles" or this type period with out any thinking. No asking HOW someone puts on the miles. Not even WHAT TYPE OF VEHICLE. No, if you run brand or type xxxxx then you are fine. Plus we have the cheerleaders for certain brands (one brand more than the others combined ) that keep posting and posting & not getting it. BITOG was the place to find data that you could trust. I've seen us quoted in so many other web sites that BITOG is the place for honest FACTUAL information. A lot of the new members (in the past few years) are just koolaid drinkers who spew this brand for this many miles/time. Its sad for people who have spent a lot of time trying to keep things above board. Good members have left. They will not be back. A lot more are thinking or will be gone soon. Lately, everything goes and I'm embarrassed of some of the spew that is typed here. Not a single fact just garbage. Take care, bill PS: I understand needing the Ads and sponsorship. But how it is displayed has troubled me. Hopefully the next time contracts are up things change.
 
Messages
43,749
Location
Ontario, Canada
I have appreciated Bill, Doug, Gary, Bruce, Mola and Johnny's posts immensely since I joined here, even though much of the time, there is plenty of disagreement amongst the above. Buster and I have talked extensively, and even though I've had a few disagreements with Bill, I do not discount his contribution through extensive testing on his own vehicles and proving that regular OC's with whatever is on sale works extremely well. I have found Doug Hillary's contributions particularly educational, and it is his input that has led to my oil choice. It was this boards obsession with oil filter design that led me to discover the superior quality of Donaldson filters as well. There does appear to be a great increase in the discussion of brands and marketing over actual results and experience. And I am definitely guilty of participating in those topics as well.
 
Messages
13,281
Location
1/2 hr N.E. of Detroit
Not dissatisfied with today's active membership here. Just disappointed that a dozen true pros I enjoyed reading have departed in the past few years. I've learned to accept the present status -- in the same manner as our shuffling rosters on local pro sports teams here in the Detroit area. They come and they go .... no sleep lost because of it.
 
Messages
1,365
Location
orwellian sheep land?
 Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
When this forum was technical and not marketing oriented. I remeber when we had actual tribologist posting. I remember when brands and marketing was considered below the discussion. I understand that this forum is considered an "asset". But it used to be an asset to the members. I am increasingly aware that the focus of the asset is more and more upon the owner than the members. It has become more of a brand [censored] match than an educational platform. This used to be the place where we could gain knowledge on engine oils and other lubricants. Where we has more inquiasitive questions upon true pros than there were neophytes pretinding to be pros. I am beggining to question the credibility of this forum, the big name advertisers and the ;oss of our resident professionals from the postings. I am not learning anymore. I am discussing marketing gimmicks and shenanigans dealing nothing with tech. Is anyone else experiencing a general sense of dissatisfaction withthe current situation?
God bless you man! That is the truth right there. I feel a little dirty having to get my hands in it today, but I did so with a purpose, and the most rationally I could. There does appear to be a lot more [harlot]ing and passivity to said [harlot]ing. Thank you for having the nuts to speak up, seriously, thank you.
 
Messages
43,749
Location
Ontario, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Max_Wander
 Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
When this forum was technical and not marketing oriented. I remeber when we had actual tribologist posting. I remember when brands and marketing was considered below the discussion. I understand that this forum is considered an "asset". But it used to be an asset to the members. I am increasingly aware that the focus of the asset is more and more upon the owner than the members. It has become more of a brand [censored] match than an educational platform. This used to be the place where we could gain knowledge on engine oils and other lubricants. Where we has more inquiasitive questions upon true pros than there were neophytes pretinding to be pros. I am beggining to question the credibility of this forum, the big name advertisers and the ;oss of our resident professionals from the postings. I am not learning anymore. I am discussing marketing gimmicks and shenanigans dealing nothing with tech. Is anyone else experiencing a general sense of dissatisfaction withthe current situation?
God bless you man! That is the truth right there. I feel a little dirty having to get my hands in it today, but I did so with a purpose, and the most rationally I could. There does appear to be a lot more [harlot]ing and passivity to said [harlot]ing. Thank you for having the nuts to speak up, seriously, thank you.
To be fair, I think that those doing the brand-bashing are just as guilty of causing the size and length, as well as the intensity of the threads that caused this thread to start, as those who actively go out of their way to over-promote certain brands or perhaps show too much brand zeal.
 
Messages
5,030
Location
Southeast Texas
I don't mind numerous and diverse opinions. I value opinions from petroleum engineers, to auto mechanics, and down to backyard Joes. It is incumbent on each reader to use personal descresion and life experiences to evaluate and draw their own conclusion about what they read, here or anywhere. I don't mind "new posters" adding input, either. People arn't necessarily idiots because their post count is <100. Conversely, massive posting counts doesn't infer competence at all, not by a long shot. Lets welcome all input & dialogue, as long as it is reasonable and polite.
 
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Messages
18,263
Location
Michigan
What about those of us who are here to learn? One of the main reasons I joined here (after years of lurking) was so that I can learn as much as I can about oil, and anything else that is car related. I'm not really into marketing much.... It's because of BITOG that I'm running different oils and filters in my cars now...God forbid I'm thinking of changing the weight too...
 
Messages
397
Location
Elk Point, Alberta
I guess how do we get the "pros" to come and frequent BITOG again? I really would like to gain some actual technical knowledge. That is the whole reason I came here! I totally agree with bill's "Now all it is either "XX for XX miles" or this type period with out any thinking. No asking HOW someone puts on the miles. Not even WHAT TYPE OF VEHICLE." And it really sad to hear this one "Its sad for people who have spent a lot of time trying to keep things above board. Good members have left. They will not be back. A lot more are thinking or will be gone soon. " I see it every day here, somebody new asks a question with the hopes of getting a fact based answer. But all they get is 3 or more pages of "opinion". There are some bright spots and it seems most days I learn something new but it gets really hard to get thru the junk most days! In no way am I saying that I am not guilty of spewing out some of this junk. I am hoping that we could get some more "fact" here. So when I do say something, its based on fact not just the opinion of an opinion.
 

JTK

Messages
13,156
Location
Buffalo, NY
 Originally Posted By: PT1
All forums go the same way as they get larger and larger and larger. Nature of the beast IMO.
That's my take on it as well. It's most noticeable to those that have been around for years. I've seen it in other forums. Joel
 

Bryanccfshr

Thread starter
Messages
6,359
Location
New Braunfels
At this point I am willing to try to elevate my conversations on this forum above board. No Brand names recomendations or inuendos. Let us that are interestested get involveved in discussions based on scientific methods. Maybe we need a brand name marketing forum that will include all these marketing related posts. For General oil related inquiries we need to operate on the original premise of BITOG which is educational and fact related. Much has been lost with the passage of time and the loss of our more profesional posters. I lament this but understand that financial circumstance drives this website. The issue is that the straightforward truthfulness of this site is being subdued by marketing. This place was built on the fact that the truth about lubrication was spoken here. THe current situation is beggining to feel of advertisers muscle. Not much truth and open learning allowed when fincial support is peddled. JTK. I agree this forum has moved far from its original intent. The temptation of commercialization has taken its toll. I feel fortunate to have been a part of some of the original technical discussions and to be a student of the axtual experts.
 
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Messages
95
Location
Ca
 Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
The issue is that the straightforward truthfulness of this site is being subdued by marketing. This place was built on the fact that the truth about lubrication was spoken here. THe current situation is beggining to feel of advertisers muscle. Not much truth and open learning allowed when fincial support is peddled.
That statement perfectly describes whats been worrying me lately about this place. Thank you for saying it better than I ever could have.
 
Messages
5,573
Location
earth
i may be blind but no specific manufacturer has ever "pushed" their product onto me here. I did throw a bearing when Mobil 1 first advertised, but I dealt with that in time. I thought BITOG was one of the better sites. I am a complete layman when it comes to oil and lubrication technology but this site is very useful for many people. We have everyone here from mechanics to accountants to engineers to scientists to who knows what. And it is good to see input from people with many backgrounds. I'd rather have motor oil ads here than [censored] and random adds to enlarge my appendix. this site costs money, it cannot maintain its services without advertisements. as far as what people say on this board, you have to decide how much value you attach to it. I can't believe the negativity and mindset that because more people are in it must have degraded in quality. It's up to all of us to maintain the integrity of this place.
 
Messages
2,327
Location
1/4 Mile Track
 Originally Posted By: crinkles
i may be blind but no specific manufacturer has ever "pushed" their product onto me here. I did throw a bearing when Mobil 1 first advertised, but I dealt with that in time. I thought BITOG was one of the better sites. I am a complete layman when it comes to oil and lubrication technology but this site is very useful for many people. We have everyone here from mechanics to accountants to engineers to scientists to who knows what. And it is good to see input from people with many backgrounds. I'd rather have motor oil ads here than [censored] and random adds to enlarge my appendix. this site costs money, it cannot maintain its services without advertisements. as far as what people say on this board, you have to decide how much value you attach to it. I can't believe the negativity and mindset that because more people are in it must have degraded in quality. It's up to all of us to maintain the integrity of this place.
\:\! Best reply on this thread,period! Sums everything up perfectly.
 
Messages
79
Location
Tn
Single best post in a long time! I have been a member for years (few post = learning instead of posting drivel)and I too have noticed the change. Sad.....
 
Messages
682
Location
ontario canada
me too. i think a better search function would help. a lot of old discussions have just become a set of digital data sitting way off in a server hard drive somewhere.
 
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Messages
2,695
Location
Easton, PA
I don't see how you can discuss oil w/o discussing brands. many new people are trying to decide between X and Y brands and just want a little insight. everyone always has the option to ignore threads they don't find informative. and as was said, members leave. well, people have lives, they move on, they lose interest. get used to it. really, there is only SO much you can really say about motor oil that hasn't aready been said.
 
Messages
47,533
Location
Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
 Originally Posted By: crinkles
i may be blind but no specific manufacturer has ever "pushed" their product onto me here.
If you see this ever - report it! Lots of whining about times past, but not a lot of doing in this thread. If a thread seems like a ad, step in and say so, shut it down, provide objective evidence, etc..... The "experts" who have truly left, leave for their own reasons. I miss Terry (I thought he went brand specific?), but Mola is still around. Who else do you miss? Doug talks about M1 (and Castrol and Shell), so he doesn't count in this thread, I suppose. And now what to do about the newbies that come in and ask about specific brands???
 
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