I had a new Camry for a few days...

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Now, now there lght, itchy trigger finger today???
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Seriously, I find the look to be growing on me, especially in black. Oddly enough, mine’s … black. And what of that Oldsmobile styling – took the entire marque to – and beyond – the brink of oblivion. . .
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In the end, of course, I’d hope that we can agree that, indeed, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

Batteries? Essentially nobody has had to “contend” with them yet. We’ve got a couple Priuschat members who are well over 200k miles on their original arrays. Keep in mind that the ECU works very hard to keep the batteries charged within a range that has been shown to maximize battery life (between 40% and 80% State of Charge or SOC). In fact, the SoC display on the dash only shows you the interval between 40 and 80. And even if, in the distant future, I have to pay today’s price for a new batt (about $2300 plus labor), by then the fuel savings relative to a comparable conventional car will far more than have made up for the cost.

Also mitigating the possible battery costs are reduced costs in other areas. For example, brake components, including pads, are almost all lifetime items on this car. So much of the braking effort is actually accomplished by the motor-generators the friction brakes are almost an afterthought. Under normal, non-panic braking, they don’t even activate until you’re down to around 8 mph.

Much more critical is the CVT. The one in the Prius is a model of simplicity. It’s not one of those “cone and belt” affairs at all. In fact, it’s little more than an open differential applied in a unique way. It is showing every indication (i.e. no indications of trouble) that it will be about as bulletproof as the diffs typically found on the rear axle of a pickup. Again, Prius owners can expect little or no expense from this unit as it ages.

And then there’s the matter of the mileage – 47.5 mpg (my running avg when I parked it this morning), makes “contending” with any other issues a lot easier to swallow.
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quote:

Originally posted by ekpolk:
And what of that Oldsmobile styling – took the entire marque to – and beyond – the brink of oblivion. . .
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What I find so disappointing about this is that (IMO) Olds actually created a beautiful car with the original Aurora, and then proceeded to ruin it by squeezing an Intrigue nose on it, and shrinking it. WHY WHY WHY? There were some seriously misguided stylists taking the helm at Olds during the transitional phases of the Aurora, when instead they should have use it as their design benchmark. You simply don't change your flagship to resemle it's underlings....you do the opposite of that.
 
Let's just see how you are after getting into a wreck going 80 mph on the interstate in that tiny Puree'
 
quote:

Originally posted by Schmoe:
Let's just see how you are after getting into a wreck going 80 mph on the interstate in that tiny Puree'

C'mon, I know it's hard, but please, please try to get your facts straight. The present version of the Prius, which I own, is a mid-sized car that's almost as large as a Camry. Look at the dimensions and weight. Mine, optioned out as it is, weighs around 3000 pounds, less than 200 shy of an I-4 Camry. The wheelbase is barely three inches less than a Camry. In all measurements, the Prius is significantly larger than a Corolla. The car has front, seat, and curtain airbags.

Namecalling -- the final resort of those who have no facts at all to back up their statements. . .
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quote:

Originally posted by ekpolk:
Now, now there lght, itchy trigger finger today???
wink.gif
tongue.gif
Seriously, I find the look to be growing on me, especially in black. Oddly enough, mine’s … black. And what of that Oldsmobile styling – took the entire marque to – and beyond – the brink of oblivion. . .
shocked.gif
In the end, of course, I’d hope that we can agree that, indeed, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

Batteries? Essentially nobody has had to “contend” with them yet. We’ve got a couple Priuschat members who are well over 200k miles on their original arrays.


Ed, good news/bad news on the batteries.

Bad first: The husband of one of my wife's friends just had the batteries in his early Prius replaced. He was afew thousand miles out of warrantee too.

Good News: Toyota didn't charge hime for the replacement batteries. Told him they normally last a lot longer, so no charge (pun was unintentional).

When you're trucking down the highway at cruising speed, not accelerating, not turning, where would you place the Prius on the comfort and noise vibration harshness scale compared to a Corrola and a Camry?
 
One thing that should be kept in mind is that the Prius is charged significantly higher than normal collision and comprehensive premiums by State Farm.

EDIT: Speaking of Toyotas and insurance, I just checked and it looks like the Scion tC's liability rating index slipped from "charged standard premium" to "charged somewhat higher than standard premium".

Looks like Toyota's target market for the Scion tC is, ahem, "making their impact".
 
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Originally posted by XS650:
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When you're trucking down the highway at cruising speed, not accelerating, not turning, where would you place the Prius on the comfort and noise vibration harshness scale compared to a Corrola and a Camry?


Very comparable to a Camry, except that the view out front takes some getting used to. There really isn't much less distance between you and the front bumper, compared to a Camry, but the shape of the structure is very different. In essence, the bottom of the windshield is slid way forward, resulting in a very long dash shelf, and a shorter, sloped hood, part of the aero thing. You really can't see the snout out there.

Driving dynamics are very good. The steering is very symmetrical, if a tad light feeling. There's little or no torquesteer, something I generally pick up on quickly, and hate, in FWD cars. I was really worried that the 295 ft-lb of TQ from the motor-generators would take its toll, but it does not. You can also feel the low rolling resistance Goodyear Integrity tires that come standard -- and those are going from mine before too long. I've experienced these tires on two other cars, and honestly, they stink, LRR benefits or not.

The braking takes a little getting used to, but it's not bad at all. In fact, most braking isn't braking at all, it's the MGs playing generator. Only in a panic stop, or below 8 mph do the hyd brakes kick in. You can feel the transition, it's a little odd if you're not expecting it, but nothing I can't live with.

As for just cruising, it's very quiet and composed. The "ICE" (internal combustion engine) is always on above 42 mph, while it, and the MGs share the propulsion load. One thing that really surprised me about the car is how well behaved the ICE really is. It's only a 1.5L, but it almost never gives you the sense of being a "buzzy" little four, even with the pedal mashed. It's not mimicing a V-8 or anything, but it's really no worse than the 2.4L in the Camry either. Comforwise, I'm presently hovering between giving it an A- or a B+. The seat is not quite as comfortable as my G35s was, but it's still very nice, and I can sit in it for at least 3 hours (longest stay so far) with no signs of discomfort. I'm happy so far.
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EDIT: One more thing. The car is narrower than a Camry. This, I suspect, is where it loses interior room compared to a Camry. Make it as wide as a Camry, and it would be almost exactly the same size inside. The guy in the middle rear would like that.
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All in all, it's a pretty civilized machine, esp compared to the quirky little beast that was the first generation Prius.
 
quote:

Originally posted by brianl703:
One thing that should be kept in mind is that the Prius is charged significantly higher than normal collision and comprehensive premiums by State Farm.
(...snip...)


Could well be, overall. My experience is probably distorted, having come from a G35 sedan, which is charged high rates. My total annual premium is down about $75.
 
quote:

Originally posted by brianl703:
One thing that should be kept in mind is that the Prius is charged significantly higher than normal collision and comprehensive premiums by State Farm.

EDIT: Speaking of Toyotas and insurance, I just checked and it looks like the Scion tC's liability rating index slipped from "charged standard premium" to "charged somewhat higher than standard premium".

Looks like Toyota's target market for the Scion tC is, ahem, "making their impact".


Unless I misread, its now rated "E," or "significantly higher than standard premium. I think 9 out of 10 tCs I see in this area are driven by female, Asian Teenagers.
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quote:

Originally posted by brianl703:
No, no, that awesome 80s "boombox" silvery metallic plastic wrapped center stack adds a ton of excitement!

Especially in the sun!


Awwww shucks, I was going to leave it alone, but I just can't resist.
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"We build excitement. . ."

Now, who slathered the airwaves with this silliness for so many years???
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XS:

One correction to my previous post. I said the ICE is always on above 42 mph. That's not quite right. It's always on when you're calling for torque (maintaining or accelerating). If you lift off the gas, or maintain speed down a grade, the ICE shuts off, and the car coasts, putting more charge into the batteries.
 
quote:

Originally posted by ekpolk:

quote:

Originally posted by Schmoe:
Let's just see how you are after getting into a wreck going 80 mph on the interstate in that tiny Puree'

C'mon, I know it's hard, but please, please try to get your facts straight. The present version of the Prius, which I own, is a mid-sized car that's almost as large as a Camry.


Exactly. You'd be way better off in a collision if you had a Dodge 3500 Crew-Cab Long-Box Dually instead!

I actually like the looks of the Prius. It's a design that makes sense; space-efficient and aerodynamic.
 
Hey, I know, let's all go out and get Peterbuilts to drive to work! Shoot, without a big trailer hitched to the back, it wouldn't be that bad now. . .

Seriously, size is but one of many factors that determine how a mishap will turn out. If the guy in the 3500 dually gets run over by the Peterbuilt, he's be checking in with St. Peter about the same time as I will if I tangle with the PB. On the other hand, I have a much, much better chance of maneuvering my way out of a dangerous situation than the guy in the dually. Gotta pick your poison, one or another, and they all have advantages and disadvantages.
 
jsharp, You can not compare her $17,000ish Camry to a 4Runner. I owned a 1986 4Runner all the way up until a year ago and it was as solid when I sold it as it was when my Dad bought it new in 1986.The quality as compared to 1986 S10 Jimmy was over the top in every area. It is the same with a Carolla. If you compare a Carolla to a Saturn ION then the Carolla is a shineing gem. If you compare it to a 4Runner it has no luster at all!

My 2003 Camry is a base 4 cylinder LE with manual trans. I think that the seating postion is less then ideal. I have to have the seat all the way back for proper use of the pedals and knee clearance. I am 6'2" and have a long torso and arms. I find it less then ideal to reach for controls and the steering wheel.Mind you I can reach everything but I do have to reach farther then is ideal to reach the dash controls. I also think that the mid-upper portion of the seat is not that great for long road trips if you are taller then 5'8".
 
The Prius is about average (side air bags) or below average for a sedan (no side air bags) in a weighted formula for safety.

http://www.informedforlife.org/demos/FCKeditor/UserFiles/File/2006ALPHA.pdf

Still, long wheelbase and weight are basically superior for avoiding serious injury. A Charger has a longer wheel base than a Tahoe (or a Crown Vic) and will be my choice when I can return to driving cars.

The Charger is far better than average so far as being a safe vehicle.

Pickups (which I drive; business) are simply inferior due to high center of gravity. Life in the slow lane is the only sane method for them. At least the high seating position allows me to see farther down the road, and I can adjust to conditions well in advance.

As to the advantage of overall economy, EDMUNDS calculates that the cost of ownership on the Prius is only .04/mile cheaper than a V6 Charger.

In fact, the difference is estimated that over 60,000 miles or five years that the "savings" of a Prius is only $9/week. Less than three gallons of gasoline.

Hybrids are the future, but not just yet. I'll cut back on Starbucks to even it out.

Nonetheless, I look forward to your thoughts on that vehicle. I despair of the usual self-satisfied types driving them to give me an accurate picture.
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Getting back to Camrys... Toyota got out in front of the snap-ring issue on the '07 Camry V6's new 6-sp auto-trannie at warp speed and it seems to have been dealt with. Very few posts over at Edmunds, now on those. However, '07 Camry I4's with the 5-sp auto-trannie are having hesitation problems - and the jury's still out whether the hesitation is the result of software for the engine, the trannie, or both. Toyota seems to be stonewalling on this one, claiming it's normal and this is how Camrys drive. But affected owners (some diehard previous Camry owners) are screaming about attempting to accelerate into traffic and finding the car just able to crawl forward even with the accelerator pedal mashed to the floorboard. What's frustrating is, not only does this anomaly not affect all cars, it may take anywhere from a hundred miles to over several thousand miles before it surfaces, if it's gonna surface. I can unserstand Toyota may not know just precisely what the problem is wrong in affected cars, but claiming it's normal operation does a disservice to the company's long-standing reputation for quality and reliability.
 
I wish them luck with the "hesitation." The 4 cyl engine has so little torque it's ill suited to an auto IMO. If you get into the throttle slowly and the transmission doesn't shift down *right now* it feels like you're giving it way too much throttle for no more than what's happening.

You can force the downshift more quickly by giving it more throttle more quickly but I found it a PITA to drive smoothly in traffic. Give me 5 or 6 real gears and a clutch any day...
 
There was a recent article (NYT or Wash Post, I don't remember which) detailing Toyota's emerging quality crisis. It seems we are just seeing the beginnings of it, and it may continue for a few more years and even grow more intense before it gets better.

One of the root causes appears to have been expansion faster than the earlier existing engineering and QC infrastructure could accomodate. All very predictable for what has been breakneck market share growth. The company has started a major effort to rectify the problem, starting with hiring many additional engineers. But they will have to weather out the recall and quality storm over what has already been placed into the marketplace.

Considering Toyota's quality record over the years, and how they responded to the adverse yen re-valuation ten years ago, I think they're due one mulligan and will right things.

But it is yet another opportunity for the US makers to step it up and reverse their sinking ships by finally making quality "Job 1" and building vehicles people want to buy.
 
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