I get a kick out of car dealerships.

[DemoFly]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
Why did you hand over the keys and registration? Were you frightened of them? Lol...Seriously, after you had already decided you didn't want the car nor like the salesperson...why didn't you just WALK? Instead, and I use your own words, you "Decided to have some fun with it". I'm sorry but that's just weird to me. I know that I don't like to waste my time "having fun" with sales folks when I have NO intent of buying the product. That's simply as dishonest as the dealer can be. The even more astounding thing was that you got the deal of the century (even if you had no intention of buying the car)...yet you admonish the dealership.
And this thing about insinuating that I had said ANYTHING about NOT test driving prospective vehicles? I never said anything of the kind. Wouldn't it have been better if you would have just been honest (not handed them the keys and registration to your car) and walked out when you didn't like the Fit or the salesperson?
Sorry my friend...but that's my opinion.

I don't understand?

I gave them my keys. There is absolutely no other way I can figure out how much the dealer would give me for my trade-in without doing so. KBB is no where near what they offer in the real world. They took my keys, because I handed them to them. They "took" them, as in, they brought them inside with them after I willingly handed them my keys.

That does not give them the right to force me to sit in a chair for an extra 30 to 45 minutes of harassment after I told them I do not like the fit, I do not like their trade in offer, and I will not buy a car today.

She purposely refused to go and get my keys to harass me with offers and snarky remarks about me preferring the competition's car.

She even told me she would go and get them when bringing back another quote from the sales manager, except when she came back she only had a quote, and not my keys.

I was playing games with the dealer? By telling them I wanted to leave and preferred a different car? That I didn't agree with their trade-in offer? That I would not be buying a car that day?

Asking to leave didn't work, so I proposed an impossible sale. I was surprised that they pretty much gave me that impossible sale.

This thread wasn't about putting down the dealership, I just wanted to share that the dealer would pretty much give me a free car.

I in no way stated that I am a better person than the saleswoman, nor did I put down the dealership in my OP.

 

[GreeCguy]

I have to agree with the original poster on this one. There's nothing wrong with looking at cars, even if one has no intention of buying. Years ago, people "window shopped" all the time and dealers knew this and even counted on it. If you can't afford it today, maybe a year from now you'll return because you smelled that new car smell and spent an entire year dreaming. Any good dealership knows this and paves the way for this to happen because after you've been there and they treated you right, you walk away with a good feeling. If they treat you poorly or make you uncomfortable, once you get out the door, there is no way you're going to return. I think this is a clear case of "high pressure sales tactics," even with the "impossible offer." Given they tried to pressure the OP into buying the car, I simply would not trust them.

In terms of the "wasting time" debate, note that the OP did state that he is thinking of buying the car because of the great deal they offered him. I dare say that's exactly what the dealership wants and knows so it was no wasted time on their part.

 

[whip]

The dealer did what they are supposed to do. It's their job to sell cars at maximum profit. It's your responsibility to buy the car for as low as you can. At the end of the day, you got a great deal offered to you. What did the dealer do that was so wrong? The OP willing played the game.

 

[Tdbo]

Originally Posted By: DemoFly
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Why did you hand over the keys and registration? Were you frightened of them? Lol...Seriously, after you had already decided you didn't want the car nor like the salesperson...why didn't you just WALK? Instead, and I use your own words, you "Decided to have some fun with it". I'm sorry but that's just weird to me. I know that I don't like to waste my time "having fun" with sales folks when I have NO intent of buying the product. That's simply as dishonest as the dealer can be. The even more astounding thing was that you got the deal of the century (even if you had no intention of buying the car)...yet you admonish the dealership.
And this thing about insinuating that I had said ANYTHING about NOT test driving prospective vehicles? I never said anything of the kind. Wouldn't it have been better if you would have just been honest (not handed them the keys and registration to your car) and walked out when you didn't like the Fit or the salesperson?
Sorry my friend...but that's my opinion.

I don't understand?

I gave them my keys. There is absolutely no other way I can figure out how much the dealer would give me for my trade-in without doing so. KBB is no where near what they offer in the real world. They took my keys, because I handed them to them. They "took" them, as in, they brought them inside with them after I willingly handed them my keys.

That does not give them the right to force me to sit in a chair for an extra 30 to 45 minutes of harassment after I told them I do not like the fit, I do not like their trade in offer, and I will not buy a car today.

She purposely refused to go and get my keys to harass me with offers and snarky remarks about me preferring the competition's car.

She even told me she would go and get them when bringing back another quote from the sales manager, except when she came back she only had a quote, and not my keys.

I was playing games with the dealer? By telling them I wanted to leave and preferred a different car? That I didn't agree with their trade-in offer? That I would not be buying a car that day?

Asking to leave didn't work, so I proposed an impossible sale. I was surprised that they pretty much gave me that impossible sale.

This thread wasn't about putting down the dealership, I just wanted to share that the dealer would pretty much give me a free car.

I in no way stated that I am a better person than the saleswoman, nor did I put down the dealership in my OP.



The only thing that you did in this scenario that you could have done better was not give up the keys. At that point, you gave them the upper hand in the interaction.

I had that happen to me once. They ended up in the sales managers office for 45 minutes. I asked the salesman for my keys. He went in the office and came back out and said he was told to leave the office. I went over and asked for the keys and was told to "go sit down." At that point, still standing in the doorway of the sales managers office, I pulled out my cell phone and told the SM that she had 5 seconds from the time that I started counting to give me my keys or I would call 911 and inform the dispatcher that I was being held against my will because they refused to give me back my keys. I didn't even make it to two

The next day, they then had the gall to call me back and keep on pushing. I can't post here what was said, but it obviously didn't go well. This was a local multi line dealer that I had bought 2 Accords from and had serviced regularly there and never had an issue, but I went over to the Ford side because I was looking for a pickup. Never been back.

The other other thing that I would say to advise you would be that when it is that bad, just leave. When you are dealing with flaming idiots like that, they will beat you every time with experience. Besides, life is too short and time is valuable.

 

[Schmoe]

Interesting opinions on this subject. Some things I haven't thought about.

 

[jrustles]

Originally Posted By: andrewg

I haven't 'ducked' anything of the kind. You have 100% completely missed any point I've tried to make no matter how hard I have tried to illustrate it. I'm done with this thread. It has become a waste of my time....no sense in trying to convince others of right and wrong these days.


We can accept that. It seems though that we are not on the same page, though. I'm still not convinced the sales team suffered damages of any kind. Also doubt the OP went in specifically looking to be belligerent, he's been clearly visiting many dealers, not just targeting Honda to troll them.

Just note, there is no moral ground for the sales team to stand on (not like they are even trying to make a case). The sales people were not 100% honest and forthright, spewing abstractions and seemingly being arrogant about their product- how hard is it to just say "okay, fine the Kia has a better warranty" or "we'll offer you a comparable warranty" rather than just smugly jibe "meh, the Kia needs it". Then they, they continued to keep the OP for as MUCH time as possible after he wanted to leave, because they want the sale. As soon as OP wants his keys to leave, any hesitation to do so voids any qualms about who's wasting who's time IMO. So that throws any moral considerations on the sales team's behalf right out the window. And forget what the sales manager said about meeting his requirements- he'll say ANYTHING to get the customer to INVEST in the situation. It's right out of the salesman handbook, 'a customer is more likely to complete a transaction if he has any investment put into the deal (emotional, logical, time, pride etc) We all know that these offers do not exist until it is explicitly stated on paper in a legal contract.

 

[zerosoma]

I think you came out pretty sweet on that deal. Don't puke in their faces and return it after 3 months. They may have your Dakota ready to disassemble so you have to bring it back to them for repairs.

Also, I would drive the Honda over a Kia. Kia is a lower-level Hyundai, and even though ours is strong, it makes lots of noises that unsettle me.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: DemoFly
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Why did you hand over the keys and registration? Were you frightened of them? Lol...Seriously, after you had already decided you didn't want the car nor like the salesperson...why didn't you just WALK? Instead, and I use your own words, you "Decided to have some fun with it". I'm sorry but that's just weird to me. I know that I don't like to waste my time "having fun" with sales folks when I have NO intent of buying the product. That's simply as dishonest as the dealer can be. The even more astounding thing was that you got the deal of the century (even if you had no intention of buying the car)...yet you admonish the dealership.
And this thing about insinuating that I had said ANYTHING about NOT test driving prospective vehicles? I never said anything of the kind. Wouldn't it have been better if you would have just been honest (not handed them the keys and registration to your car) and walked out when you didn't like the Fit or the salesperson?
Sorry my friend...but that's my opinion.

I don't understand?

I gave them my keys. There is absolutely no other way I can figure out how much the dealer would give me for my trade-in without doing so. KBB is no where near what they offer in the real world. They took my keys, because I handed them to them. They "took" them, as in, they brought them inside with them after I willingly handed them my keys.

That does not give them the right to force me to sit in a chair for an extra 30 to 45 minutes of harassment after I told them I do not like the fit, I do not like their trade in offer, and I will not buy a car today.

She purposely refused to go and get my keys to harass me with offers and snarky remarks about me preferring the competition's car.

She even told me she would go and get them when bringing back another quote from the sales manager, except when she came back she only had a quote, and not my keys.

I was playing games with the dealer? By telling them I wanted to leave and preferred a different car? That I didn't agree with their trade-in offer? That I would not be buying a car that day?

Asking to leave didn't work, so I proposed an impossible sale. I was surprised that they pretty much gave me that impossible sale.

This thread wasn't about putting down the dealership, I just wanted to share that the dealer would pretty much give me a free car.

I in no way stated that I am a better person than the saleswoman, nor did I put down the dealership in my OP.

I wasn't going to post in this thread anymore but after seeing that you've posted something, I'll respond.
Your original post is very confusing to me. You said you went to the dealer and went for a ride in the Honda Fit. You then said she didn't understand the word "no". So, when you went for this ride, and decided you didn't like the Fit (and told the salesperson you didn't) my question is WHY did you give her the keys to your vehicle? I understand that they would need to check the vehicle for trade in value BUT at that point you didn't like the Fit (or the salesperson)....so why give them the keys? In YOUR OWN WORDS you stated that you "decided to have FUN with it". Is that not playing a game with the salesperson? Were have I misunderstood your intent here? Even when you gave them the keys to your truck you said "I mainly just wanted to see how appallingly low the trade in value they would offer me would be". So again, and this is confusing...why did you do that if you didn't like the Fit, the salesperson, and were just interested in seeing how low a trade-in they would give you? You see, you PUT yourself in the position of being a serious buyer....yet YOU are portraying the dealership as this awful place that took your keys and "forced" you to sit for at least 45 minutes. That is odd to me BECAUSE you GAVE them the keys and toyed with them with NO INTENTION of buying that Honda Fit. I'll agree that the salesperson was not listening to you...but you've got to agree that you placed yourself in this position by your actions....and quite frankly you must have been VERY meek in saying no and the same in asking for your keys back. Personally I would have had NO problem getting my keys back. But then I would not have given the keys to them BEFORE I decided I wanted a particular car. That just makes no sense. The other perplexing part is why you continued to play the part of a serious buyer (and waste your time in getting those keys back) by negotiating that deal with them. They even ACCEPTED your completely bogus deal....yet you have no guilt or remorse for messing around with them? Why would you do through all this with no intent on buying the Fit??
You know, I understand how crummy and dishonest many dealerships are. They can be real scumbags. But this Honda dealer didn't do anything that awful...especially when you played along. The whole story sounds like you've exaggerated it a bit for effect....but I'm not trying to be insulting. I'll take you at your word because I wasn't there. But perhaps you've learned something from this whole mess?

 

[KrisZ]

Funny how some view dealers time as more valuable than customer's. When did it become a rule that one should not walk into a dealer lot unless 100% commited to buy a car?
Are dealers becoming like restaurant industry when 15% tips (no matter the quality of the service) are mandatory and already included on the bill?

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: andrewg

I haven't 'ducked' anything of the kind. You have 100% completely missed any point I've tried to make no matter how hard I have tried to illustrate it. I'm done with this thread. It has become a waste of my time....no sense in trying to convince others of right and wrong these days.


We can accept that. It seems though that we are not on the same page, though. I'm still not convinced the sales team suffered damages of any kind. Also doubt the OP went in specifically looking to be belligerent, he's been clearly visiting many dealers, not just targeting Honda to troll them.

Just note, there is no moral ground for the sales team to stand on (not like they are even trying to make a case). The sales people were not 100% honest and forthright, spewing abstractions and seemingly being arrogant about their product- how hard is it to just say "okay, fine the Kia has a better warranty" or "we'll offer you a comparable warranty" rather than just smugly jibe "meh, the Kia needs it". Then they, they continued to keep the OP for as MUCH time as possible after he wanted to leave, because they want the sale. As soon as OP wants his keys to leave, any hesitation to do so voids any qualms about who's wasting who's time IMO. So that throws any moral considerations on the sales team's behalf right out the window. And forget what the sales manager said about meeting his requirements- he'll say ANYTHING to get the customer to INVEST in the situation. It's right out of the salesman handbook, 'a customer is more likely to complete a transaction if he has any investment put into the deal (emotional, logical, time, pride etc) We all know that these offers do not exist until it is explicitly stated on paper in a legal contract.

Ok...perhaps they sales team at that Honda dealer were indeed somewhat dishonest. That could very well be the case. But that did not excuse the OP from playing a game and getting more deeper involved. All that does is continue the debacle. Besides all that....don't we ALL know that dealers are like this before we get involved in haggling over a car? They are in it for the money....and just like most sales people they will do whatever they can to get you to NOT leave that lot without buying a car? That's very common. Statistically speaking if a potential buyer walks off the lot they will not be buying a car there in the near future.
Again...they KEY thing? I'm not trying to be rude but I can't understand how a grown man would allow anybody to keep the keys to your own car when asking for them. Did the OP decide at that point this whole thing is done with? No...he decided to drag it out even further by haggling with the salesperson.
I don't give the OP a pat on the back for messing with the dealer. In my opinion it was handled in a fashion that only wasted more time....the dealers time....and more importantly HIS time. I know I learned something....and that is how easy it is to get and keep keys from somebody unable or unwilling to be assertive.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Funny how some view dealers time as more valuable than customer's. When did it become a rule that one should not walk into a dealer lot unless 100% commited to buy a car?
Are dealers becoming like restaurant industry when 15% tips (no matter the quality of the service) are mandatory and already included on the bill?

That certainly isn't my point...nor have I even remotely stated that. I would say that a person interested in test driving vehicles should do so as much as they need to find the one they want. But when one gives a dealer the keys for a trade-in value, test drives a car, AND continues to haggle over a price WITHOUT the intention of following through....just who is the culprit here?

 

[Win]

Good grief.

Around here, nothing less than a sales manager can actually sell a car, so it's a pointless waste of everyone's time to talk to anyone else.

Buying a car should take about fifteen minutes if you're serious about it. Less than that for a commodity car like a Fit.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: Tdbo

I had that happen to me once. They ended up in the sales managers office for 45 minutes. I asked the salesman for my keys. He went in the office and came back out and said he was told to leave the office. I went over and asked for the keys and was told to "go sit down." At that point, still standing in the doorway of the sales managers office, I pulled out my cell phone and told the SM that she had 5 seconds from the time that I started counting to give me my keys or I would call 911 and inform the dispatcher that I was being held against my will because they refused to give me back my keys. I didn't even make it to two

The next day, they then had the gall to call me back and keep on pushing. I can't post here what was said, but it obviously didn't go well.



This.


The amusing thing is that some folks responding here demonstrate EXACTLY why $tealerships have a horrible reputation among consumers. This [censored] happens all the time. These businesses keep repeating the same nonsense all the time and NEVER LEARN.

If this situation was occurring to me I would have not just threatened to call the police, I WOULD HAVE CALLED THE POLICE AND FILED A COMPLAINT AGAINST THESE LOW LIFES!

The only thing these shady clowns understand is tangible threats to their tactics.

 

[mrsilv04]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I went to two large Honda dealers in my area. Both acted pretty much the same. One got mad at me because I pulled out a calculator to make sense of their numbers...


When I go buy a vehicle, the dealer is the one using the calculator... not me.

I will make the dealer ONE "out the door" offer. Not two, not three. ONE. And this is what it sounds like, on my last purchase:

"I will write you a check for $17,500 for the maroon Silverado pickup that I drove. You can reverse engineer the numbers however you like, but the bottom line on the sales contract will add up to exactly $17,500".

It takes 15 seconds for me to make the offer, and it shouldn't take more than two minutes for the offer to be accepted or refused. Make the offer in the Sales Manager's office, with the salesperson present. It saves the poor salesperson from having to walk back and forth.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I went to two large Honda dealers in my area. Both acted pretty much the same. One got mad at me because I pulled out a calculator to make sense of their numbers...


When I go buy a vehicle, the dealer is the one using the calculator... not me.

I will make the dealer ONE "out the door" offer. Not two, not three. ONE. And this is what it sounds like, on my last purchase:

"I will write you a check for $17,500 for the maroon Silverado pickup that I drove. You can reverse engineer the numbers however you like, but the bottom line on the sales contract will add up to exactly $17,500".

It takes 15 seconds for me to make the offer, and it shouldn't take more than two minutes for the offer to be accepted or refused. Make the offer in the Sales Manager's office, with the salesperson present. It saves the poor salesperson from having to walk back and forth.


Alas, I was young and it was my first and only time so far buying a brand new car or one from the dealer for that matter. I learned a lot through that experience and in the future I will deal with them just like in your post. Final out the door price and they can figure out the rest.

 

[dishdude]

All you have to do is email the dealers in the area, they all have an internet sales department and will negotiate over email. No need to haggle in the showroom and play their games.

 

[javacontour]

This is my approach as well. One number, an OTD number. What size check I'm willing to write.

I just write it in the lower RH corner and say that's the check. What you do with the number above that figure really doesn't matter to me. Any fees you charge, etc are above that line so how you juggle the numbers is none of my business.

If they play games, I LOWER my offer, as my time is worth something. That usually sends the message pretty quickly.

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I went to two large Honda dealers in my area. Both acted pretty much the same. One got mad at me because I pulled out a calculator to make sense of their numbers...


When I go buy a vehicle, the dealer is the one using the calculator... not me.

I will make the dealer ONE "out the door" offer. Not two, not three. ONE. And this is what it sounds like, on my last purchase:

"I will write you a check for $17,500 for the maroon Silverado pickup that I drove. You can reverse engineer the numbers however you like, but the bottom line on the sales contract will add up to exactly $17,500".

It takes 15 seconds for me to make the offer, and it shouldn't take more than two minutes for the offer to be accepted or refused. Make the offer in the Sales Manager's office, with the salesperson present. It saves the poor salesperson from having to walk back and forth.

 

[DBMaster]

The only problem with being the first to make the offer is that they may have sold it to you for LESS. You can go armed with some decent pricing data - at least an average selling price for your area. I got that for my Mazda from Consumer Reports and paid for the service, but TrueCar seemed just as good. You have them make the first offer and then counter.

Honestly, though, I think the time has long since passed to have to haggle for a car. The salesman who was with me when I test drove the car was not in yet the day I called to buy it so I ended up speaking directly with the manager. It worked out fine and I got the car for less than the average selling price and less than the "price to shoot for" (or, whatever term CR used for it).

I tested all the cars I was interested in first, telling each salesman that I was definitely not buying that day. None pressured me and none played that game with the, "What would it take to get you in this car today?"

So, I would say, overall, that the experience was decent. Of course, this was the first new car I bought since 1992. That was an Escort wagon and I did the thing with giving them the bottom line offer, which they quickly agreed to. That makes me think I could have done better so I learned not to be the first to mention money.

 

[linkbelt]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
All you have to do is email the dealers in the area, they all have an internet sales department and will negotiate over email. No need to haggle in the showroom and play their games.


Correct!
Do your homework, email internet manager, negotiate.

Take check to dealership and drive your car away.

(Car will be ready when you get there)!

 

[DBMaster]

I read last year when I bought my car that some have taken the internet buying to the next level by choosing a car through reviews or word-of-mouth and skipping the test drive altogether.

I thought that was really interesting. I don't know if I could bring myself to do it.