I emailed Redline Tech. Department

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wouldnt a virgin oil analysis give the info you requested ? { havent checked but I
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'd be suprised no one has done one for Redline ????}
 
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Originally posted by Scali62:
wouldnt a virgin oil analysis give the info you requested ? { havent checked but I
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'd be suprised no one has done one for Redline ????}


I just checked; there are some VOAs for Redline.
 
No, UOA will not tell us the percentage of esters. I am guessing that their are two ways to find out. One would be to weight a sample of the oil add some type of chemical that wold only catalze esters. Remove the esters and weight the remaining sample. I would not begine to know how to do this and I do not own an anylitical(sp) scale. THe second method would be to put some in a gaschromatagraph and light it up.

The above were just crude guess's on my part. In a way they did answere one question! I know fell confident in saying that their product is not 100% esters.

I thought that Daves customer service skills were sadly lacking. He definately missed out on a HUGE opertunity to set the record clear about his products. He could have used this message as a marketing tool. Were else could he find so many oil Zelots drooling for information?

We will see how it does in a daily driver with UOA as the judge! In raceing it is a one of the top dogs!
 
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In raceing it is a one of the top dogs!

And thats just it, does Redline only excell in the racing market? Maybe their racing oils are what makes them so reputable.
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Originally posted by pscholte:

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Originally posted by Scali62:
wouldnt a virgin oil analysis give the info you requested ? { havent checked but I
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'd be suprised no one has done one for Redline ????}


I just checked; there are some VOAs for Redline.


Indeed, as Terry Dyson just posted one yesterday on Redline 5w30.
 
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The best UOA's on this board period are Redline! The best tech support and non bs answers I have received from anybody is again Redline. What more do you want?

Sprintman, thats not true at all. Not even close. There were two excellent reports followed by multiple reports where soft metal reading were higher. Lead in many Redline reports was significantly higher then Mobil 1.

It has to be noted that it does seem that Redline's chemistry, whether it's the excessive amounts of Moly or esters, has a clear cut effect on used oil analysis in a negative way. I just went through every oil analysis from Redline and it's very sketchy to say the least. I don't have the knowledge to figure it out but I can tell you that if Pb rises when I run it, it's not due to cleaning!
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The best UOA's on this board period are Redline

BUUUUUNNNKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!

There have been a few. There have been some **** poor UOA's for the buck. Buster has a point, he starting with a "clean" engine so no more excuses for Redline. All I ever need to do is pull out my 20K on ASL reports and smile.

As far as the answer from Redline? Straight up OK answer. Have any of you worked in the chemical blending world. Holy moses, what a cutthroat group. If someone expected a % answer, they must have been confused.

I have received some perfect answers and some total garbage answers from Amsoil, and I'm a dealer. Let's see Castrol, now they give good answers, Mobil1, hmm? You get the point. If they gave good answers there wouldn't be BiTOG!!!
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[ September 24, 2003, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: Pablo ]
 
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Originally posted by boxcartommie22:
i have called redline and spoke to dave and he gave me everything i asked for redline is fantastic for giving out values and all!!!

Seems we have an ideological disconnect.
 
The best UOA I've seen here was RL 5W40 in somebodys turbo engine. A few have been close but none better IMO. Of all tech depts I deal with and that includes Motul, BP, Shell, Caltex/Havoline, Penrite, Mobil and more Dave Granquist at RL stands head and shoulders above the rest. I have kept every email reply he's sent me for future reference. BP is a very distant 2nd and the rest forget it. Now if I was a small oil company I sure as h--- wouldn't be giving out my formulations to anybody purely for economic reasons. They dont have the $$ or legal muscle to stop others reverse engineering their stuff whereas multi billion dollar oil companies do.
 
I posted some virgin oil numbers for Redline. I used Redline for two straight intervals of just over 3000 miles each. My car is just over one year old and no oil has lasted in it for more than 3000 miles during the past year.

All I know is that my lead and aluminum wear numbers were higher with both Redline intervals. The numbers were lower when I used other oils before the Redline intervals, and the numbers dropped again when I went to Castrol Syntec German made 0w-30 after Redline. So the numbers kinda spiked when Redline was used. The Redline wear numbers were still pretty good overall, but I wouldnt say they were the best of any oil because they werent even close. So I'd really like to get to the bottom of this issue concerning lead and soft metal wear counts.

Dont get me wrong, I've always felt that Redline was the best engineered oil on paper based on its specs, I just have a hard time translating how it performs with respect to lead and softer metal counts in daily driven street vehicles. I know its very highly recommended and used in the racing world which speaks volumes about its quality.

I've often felt that maybe our UOA's might be missing something, but I've been assured by a few people on this board that UOA's are highly regarded methods of testing for engine wear and oil quality. I'd sure like to see more info on this oil and UOA's from Redline, maybe Dave at Redline will read this post and share some of his thoughts. Maybe we can email Dave about this specific issue without asking him specifics on oil composition , maybe he'll respond to that.

[ September 24, 2003, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: Idrinkmotoroil ]
 
I think it's closer to the other way around - 80% polyolesters and 20% PAO's for Redline. Harrydog

Wouldn't that much ester eat up the seals in most automobiles. I can see jet engine oil being almost 99% ester, as is A/C refrigerant oil and vaccum pump oil.
 
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Dont get me wrong, I've always felt that Redline was the best engineered oil on paper based on its specs, I just have a hard time translating how it performs with respect to lead and softer metal counts in daily driven street vehicles. I know its very highly recommended and used in the racing world which speaks volumes about its quality.

Well said, I agree.
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One last beating of a dead horse
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So Redline doesn't want to give out approximate percentages of Estors because??????? They are of course assuming that someone will copy their formula?? They are also assuming that this company copying their formula will not thave the wherewithall to determine the amount of Esters on their own???
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I do understand the response. But I also understand the need to please and accomodate the customer. Many companies have forgotten this technique.
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It also bothers me that many of these companies don't even bother to fully read the email, because even if they didn't want to answer one of John's questions, they could've at least commented on his other one.
 
I think we have to delineate between a technical services department and a customer service department. A customer service department tells the customer what the scientists and bean counters tell them to tell the customer. A technical services department usually answers or fields questions of a technical nature, such as what oil to use, how long, and takes in customer feedback regarding potential problems, and solutions to problems.


When a company, person, or entity states that their formulations are proprietary, they mean that they will not give out any detailed technical information.


In their (Redline's) literature they state that their formulations are polyol ester based, and they are. They give out just this tidbit of info to imply that that their base oil technology is superior to all others, and it may well be.


But base oil technology is no good without the proper additive package blended into the base oil. All oil companies are constantly upgrading and making formulation tweaks as cutomer feedback, testing, UOA's, and comments come into the lab.
 
Most of what I wanted to say has already been said by others. I respect the right of Red Line to keep their formulas proprietary but Dave could have answered that e-mail better ... especially when JB stated that he was part of an on-line discussion group, one Red Line should be well aware of.

Back to the topic of Red Line oil and UOAs, keep in mind that certain oils are better at keeping all components in suspension than others. This may work against Red Line and for another oil which has a weaker dispersant ability (from base oil or additives).

An oil leaving behind a layer of sludge (even gradually) is also leaving behind bits of wear, insolubles and other crud which won't show up in any UOAs.

So, if you have two UOAs from two different engines with the exact same PPM of wear metals and one is showing sign of sludge and the other isn't, I think it's safe to conclude that the cleaner engine has experienced less wear. This is just a generalization, however and the sludge/residue would have to be analyzed for wear metal content before you could put any real faith in that statement.

--- Bror Jace
 
"Most of what I wanted to say has already been said by others. I respect the right of Red Line to keep their formulas proprietary but Dave could have answered that e-mail better ... especially when JB stated that he was part of an on-line discussion group, one Red Line should be well aware of."

Unfortunately there is always a big disconnect between marketing and the lab, because of the mind sets of each.

Dave doesn't see the big picture when it comes to giving his product free advertising and exposure. And marketing is just plain, well, stupid when it comes to the tekky stuff.

Rarely do you find scientists who are both scientists, diplomatic, and who have a business savy.

Dave should have, IMHO, sent a public release statement to the BITOG board answering the questions to the extent that he not divulge any proprietary information, with a little "push" for his product at the end of the statement.

Conversely, he might have concluded that if he answered BITOG, he would have to send PRS' to every board on the Internet to avoid the semblance of bias.
 
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Back to the topic of Red Line oil and UOAs, keep in mind that certain oils are better at keeping all components in suspension than others. This may work against Red Line and for another oil which has a weaker dispersant ability (from base oil or additives).

Bror, if you could scientifically prove that, that would be great. I just bought a case of Redline and I hope it works for the money I spent. More and more I'm becomming a bigger fan of Amsoil/Mobil 1 lubricants. I just don't see the advantage of spending money on Redline. And there has been, no doubt, far to many excuses for this oil. I really think certain people want certain oils to fail and others to be better to justify what they are using or bought etc.
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