I am tired of specs as the 229.5 Mercedes or the VW 502.00

[AEHaas]

I used to review stereo equipment and certainly read music reviews (classical only). Sometimes the music review was bad because they said the bass drum was too strong or the piece was played too fast but everything else was fine. Well I like bass drum and for certain compositions I like a little faster (maybe there is a pattern here). I bought the music recording that had a bad review and was elated. Some of my favorite musical pieces got the worst reviews. I will admit that these are exceptions however. Most often I do agree with other’s analysis. When an oil does not meet a specification it does not mean it is a bad oil. For example only certain oils are Mercedes 229.5 certified. Does that mean the others are all bad? No. An oil may need to last 20,000 miles or 2 years to meet a spec - among other things. What if an oil with a life of only 1 year or 7,500 miles is actually far better in all the other criteria? Since I choose to change my oil every 3 - 4,000 miles I will actually get better engine performance than the longer lasting “certified” oil. The bottom line is that once again you have to look at the way YOU use the oil and look at each oil independently on face value. aehaas

 

[JHZR2]

Good points, all very true. Unfortuanately, it seems that for some engines, it is necessary to meet some specs because otherwise the idiotic typical consumer will get all sorts of problems, sludge, and whatnot else (think 1.8T sludge, MBUSA class action lawsuit, etc). So, all in all, for a somewhat 'enlightened' population such as ourselves, an oil isnt a bad oil just because it doesnt meet some spec. For Joe Consumer, it IS a bad oil because it doesnt meet some spec. Unfortunate that it has to come to that, but I doubt it will ever not be so. JMH

 

[buster]

quote:

---

used to review stereo equipment and certainly read music reviews (classical only).

---

You'll have to come watch the Philadelphia Orchestra play. They are good. My wife played the flute for 10 years at a very advanced level before she became a Pre-Med student. Classical musicians get on my nerves and so do many Jazz players. No offense. They tend to be snobby and stuck up. Too critical and approach music too scientific. That is why I don't discuss music with her. Engines rarely fail due to oil. The fail bc eventually they wear out, which relates to oil, but more so dirt. If you've noticed, Blackstone Labs regards most oils as being the same. Why? Because for the most part they are. Most all the oils buy and share the same additive packages from several of the major suppliers. The base oils vary and probably quality but if you took all the 3-5k mile drain UOAs on this board, they all perform fairly well. Note, when do you see REALLY high wear? When Dirt is involved or contamination. Enough said.

 

[srivett]

I'm all for these specs but for gasoline! My poor dad runs all over the place trying to find low alcohol gas for his 1997 RAV4. If the pump said "toyota approved" I'd be able to get him to stop paying for the most expensive national brand. Steve

 

[Shannow]

quote:

---

Originally posted by AEHaas: Well I like bass drum and for certain compositions I like a little faster (maybe there is a pattern here). I bought the music recording that had a bad review and was elated. Some of my favorite musical pieces got the worst reviews.

---

AEHaas, I strongly suggest that you get Megadeth's "Risk".

 

[pscholte]

quote:

---

Originally posted by AEHaas: For example only certain oils are Mercedes 229.5 certified. Does that mean the others are all bad? No. An oil may need to last 20,000 miles or 2 years to meet a spec - among other things. What if an oil with a life of only 1 year or 7,500 miles is actually far better in all the other criteria? Since I choose to change my oil every 3 - 4,000 miles I will actually get better engine performance than the longer lasting “certified” oil. The bottom line is that once again you have to look at the way YOU use the oil and look at each oil independently on face value. aehaas

---

AE... Even though I am far closer to your OCIs than I am to Mercedes FSS (with the fleece filter) intervals, the 229.5 spec gives me a sense of reserve capacity. So that is why I like having an oil that meets it. It is purely a personal bias and may, under testing, prove not actually to be the case, given the other contributors to Mercedes long OCI. Nonetheless, until proven that it doesn't really represent a reserve capacity, I'll go with my 229.5 bias.

 

[terminaldegree]

quote:

---

Originally posted by buster:

quote:

---

used to review stereo equipment and certainly read music reviews (classical only).

---

You'll have to come watch the Philadelphia Orchestra play. They are good. My wife played the flute for 10 years at a very advanced level before she became a Pre-Med student. Classical musicians get on my nerves and so do many Jazz players. No offense. They tend to be snobby and stuck up. Too critical and approach music too scientific. That is why I don't discuss music with her.

---

Try making your living as a classical musician, and you will quickly understand why we're so critical. Competition for available jobs is utterly insane, and those of us who head into academia with over 10 years of college and three degrees are looking at starting salaries from the high $20's into the high $30's. BTW, the Philly orchestra does indeed *not* suck-- but AEHaas probably knew that already. Sorry to hijack the thread...

 

[moribundman]

Carmakers' oil requirements are nothing but a way of ensuring that a MINIMUM level of quality is maintained. While the dear doctor seems to believe those carmakers' oil specs imply extraodinary quality, I believe they represent the lowest quality approved by the maker. Specific specs also include limits on things like sulfated ash, which may be critical for long component life in some motors, while it doesn't matter in others. Therefore I am not tired of specific oil specs and in favor of "tailored" oil specs.

 

[buster]

quote:

---

Therefore I am not tired of specific oil specs and in favor of "tailored" oil specs.

---

Me too.

 

[JohnBrowning]

I wish all companys had a well spelled out standard like most of the European companys! I too can look at a spec. sheet adn then check my UOA to see if I have an oil that is performing! It also makes it easier for use that want to exceed the requirment to be able to see the spec.'s listed. I wish Toyota would develop a standard for HTHS,NOAK,TFOUT etc........Listing 5W30 and 10W30 API SL as the standard is really weak! You would think that with all of the bad press froms ludgeing all companys would be calling for tougher oil!

 

[JohnBrowning]

Imagine if the TDI did not have a well defined spec! You would have people running Walmart 5W30 in the TDI for 10,000+ miles and VW would be paying out all kinds of warranty claims! Imagine how long the Z06 would last on Accel HD nondetergent 30Wt.!Standards at as a minimum guide for the consemer to try to ensure that the device last at least as long as designed and performs as designed for that period of time! Standards are good adn if anyting we need more of them not less!

 

[427Z06]

quote:

---

Originally posted by AEHaas: Well I like bass drum and for certain compositions...

---

If you like bass in general, try some organ music. With a powerful subwoofer that can reach the lower octaves, you can simulate earthquakes right in your own home. Oh yeah oil specs...I think the point the good doctor is making is that some people assume "certain" manufacturer oil specs, such as VW/Audi, imply superior protection in all engines and conditions. [ April 26, 2005, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: 427Z06 ]