Hyundai - Toyota

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I was told recently that Toyota builds the engine and trannys for the Hyundai Sonata. I know these days you never know who builds what!
 
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You were told wrong. Hyundai manufacturers all its own engines and trannies. At one point, Mitsubishi helped Hyundai by providing engines for them, or making them. That stopped when the 'Alpha' engine came out in the new Accent.
 
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It's a bit of a misnomer. Toyota spun it's transmission unit off and it is now part of AISIN, which Toyota is the largest owner of. Many older Sonotas did have an Aisin tranny. I believe, but don't know if the current one is. I know Hyundai has a in-house 6 speed, but they also buy Aisin 6speeds for the Genisis. EDIT: sorry, the genisis tranny Hyundai buys from ZF, not Aisin. Toyota doesn't build the engines for them, though.
 
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pbm

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 Originally Posted By: addyguy
You were told wrong. Hyundai manufacturers all its own engines and trannies. At one point, Mitsubishi helped Hyundai by providing engines for them, or making them. That stopped when the 'Alpha' engine came out in the new Accent.
IMO Hyundais improved when they stopped using Mitsubishi designed engines and transmissions and started designing their own. I once saw a book that said "Mitsubishi is proof that the Japanese aren't perfect".
 
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 Quote:
I once saw a book that said "Mitsubishi is proof that the Japanese aren't perfect".
Based on a coworker's POS Mitsu I'd have to agree with that one! John
 
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 Originally Posted By: pbm
 Originally Posted By: addyguy
You were told wrong. Hyundai manufacturers all its own engines and trannies. At one point, Mitsubishi helped Hyundai by providing engines for them, or making them. That stopped when the 'Alpha' engine came out in the new Accent.
IMO Hyundais improved when they stopped using Mitsubishi designed engines and transmissions and started designing their own. I once saw a book that said "Mitsubishi is proof that the Japanese aren't perfect".
Well, it is pure hyperbole, but maybe ten years ago or so, I read something to the effect that the A6M2 Zero fighter was the zenith of Mitsu quality and creativity, and it's been downhill ever since. And even back then the poor Zero (or maybe I should say "poor Zero pilots") didn't get self-sealing fuel tanks...
 
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My wife was a gen 1 Eclipse owner. Got one new in 93 or 94. IMHO those were POS cars. I don't care how fast they were. They were cool to look at but that was about it. Plastic interior bits were always falling off, the timing belt snapped after 50k miles, and the interior was designed for baby midgets. Seeing as her previous car was a LeBaron convertable, it was still an improvement.
 
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Mitsu is a huge Japanese conglomerate - they make great electrical parts like starters and alternators, air conditioners, and TVs but their cars are horrible...
 
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 Originally Posted By: John_K
 Quote:
I once saw a book that said "Mitsubishi is proof that the Japanese aren't perfect".
Based on a coworker's POS Mitsu I'd have to agree with that one! John
Same goes for Chrysler- Mitsu can't seem to build an engine that doesn't swill oil by the gallon. I still have people tell me they'd never buy a Chrysler because of "all those blue-smoking minivans," but those were virtually all Mitsubishi 3.0 powered. The stack of tech service bulletins trying to fix oil consumption on that engine could fill a whole 3-ring binder, and they *never* really solved it. And then there was the Mitsu 2.6 4-banger that had a new head casting every year of production an every single one of them was prone to cracking...
 
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 Originally Posted By: addyguy
You were told wrong. Hyundai manufacturers all its own engines and trannies.
Well, mostly. They're a partner with Chrysler and (unfortunately) Mitsubishi on the "World Engine" 4-cylinder platform. By all reports it is a great engine in both its Chrysler and Hyundai versions, so I guess the Chrysler and Hyundai engineers must have bound and gagged the Mitu engineers. Or else put them in charge of picking what color to paint the block...
 

pbm

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 Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
[quote=addyguy]You were told wrong. Hyundai manufacturers all its own engines and trannies.
Well, mostly. They're a partner with Chrysler and (unfortunately) Mitsubishi on the "World Engine" 4-cylinder platform. By all reports it is a great engine in both its Chrysler and Hyundai versions, so I guess the Chrysler and Hyundai engineers must have bound and gagged the Mitu engineers. Or else put them in charge of picking what color to paint the block... Which Hyundai uses that engine? I like Hyundai now even though the (well maintained, Mitsubishi designed) A/T in my 92' Sonata died at 109K. I'd buy a current Hyundai in a heart-beat.
 
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A lot of generalising here as far as Mitsubishi is concerned. I've got a Pajero with the infamous 3.0L 6G72 and it keeps on going. Albeit the valve guides are shot at 170,000 miles, but so what...I'm overhauling the top end soon for the first time. The bottom ends on the 6G engines are as bullet proof as it gets, and whilst there were some flaws with the 12-valve version, the 24-valve version has fixed that. I even bit the bullet and even got a Galant with the 3.8L 6G75. This truck has actually been the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned, and my first Japanese/Mitsubishi at that. I've also owned a 2008 Outlander, which I sold off for personal reasons and now replaced with the Galant. Mitsubishi are not like they used to be, neither is Hyundai. Both are now building excellent, reliable vehicles.
 
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 Originally Posted By: nthach
Mitsu is a huge Japanese conglomerate - they make great electrical parts like starters and alternators, air conditioners, and TVs but their cars are horrible...
I never liked Mitusbishi. When I sold cars I had a saying, sell a Mistubishi make an enemy. Boy if that wasn't the truth. This was back in early 2000, I sold them used. Maybe they've improved now, but boy were they a problem back then. I never liked Mitsubishi. When I sold cars I had a saying, "sell a Mitsubishi make an enemy". Boy if that wasn't the truth. This was back in early 2001, I sold them used. Maybe they've improved now, but boy were they a problem back then. I lost a lot of respect for Japanese cars because of them. Then I realized the only thing they had in common with Honda and Toyota was the fact that all three had tires. JMO
 
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We bought an Eagle Summit Wagon (5 speed manual) in 1992. It had a Mitsubishi engine and it was for this car that I first tried a synthetic oil; M1 and if memory serves me correctly for a while M1 synthetic wasnt available in Canada so I had friends bring to me from across the border. This car lasted was 13 years but it consumed oil greatly its whole life.
 
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pbm

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My family bought a new Dodge Colt (Mitsubishi product) back in 1977 and it was a great little basic car. The 1988 and 1993 Colts that other family members bought were also great basic cars. I think that Mitsubishi started having problems when they introduced high technology cars before they perfected the technology. My friend bought a loaded Galant Sigma in the late 80's (or 90) and had the A/T rebuilt 3 times before dumping it at 60K. The 2.0 Mitsu designed engine in my Sonata wasn't bad but the KM-175 A/T was junk. Current Mitsu's are probably very good cars but these manufacturers have to learn that consumers have long memories....
 
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 Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
A lot of generalising here as far as Mitsubishi is concerned. I've got a Pajero with the infamous 3.0L 6G72 and it keeps on going. Albeit the valve guides are shot at 170,000 miles, but so what...I'm overhauling the top end soon for the first time. The bottom ends on the 6G engines are as bullet proof as it gets, and whilst there were some flaws with the 12-valve version, the 24-valve version has fixed that. I even bit the bullet and even got a Galant with the 3.8L 6G75. This truck has actually been the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned, and my first Japanese/Mitsubishi at that. I've also owned a 2008 Outlander, which I sold off for personal reasons and now replaced with the Galant. Mitsubishi are not like they used to be, neither is Hyundai. Both are now building excellent, reliable vehicles.
I've got a friend who's had an 80's vintage 2-door Dodge Raider (Mitsu Pajero) for at least 10 years. He loves the thing to death. But when we lived together, it was nothing for him to have the whole [censored] engine disassembled on the living room floor. I'm sorry, but just about any car can be made to last indefinately when you replace everything in it. It becomes a question of whether you want to. That, to me, does not make a car great.
 
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 Originally Posted By: BrianWC
I've got a friend who's had an 80's vintage 2-door Dodge Raider (Mitsu Pajero) for at least 10 years. He loves the thing to death. But when we lived together, it was nothing for him to have the whole [censored] engine disassembled on the living room floor. I'm sorry, but just about any car can be made to last indefinately when you replace everything in it. It becomes a question of whether you want to. That, to me, does not make a car great.
I understand your point, however, I have yet to replace anything major on mine. So far, it's always been routine maintenance. If the original valve guides have lasted 150,000 miles and nearly 10 years, I have nothing to complain about. I can get away simply by replacing the valve seals to solve my problem (1 litre every 4,500 km on synthetic), but I like going the extra mile. I'm even voluntarily replacing the valves, despite being told there is no requirement to do so. This truck's been great to me, and I've even made a trip from Kuwait to the UK and back with it, covering all sorts of terrain. A bit of luck comes into play as well, I would imagine, but I maintain my cars a lot more than the average driver - which I reckon has something to do with it as well. Below is one of my posts from another thread titled 'How used is your car/truck?'
 Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
2000 Mitsubishi Pajero/Montero 3.0L V6 with ActivTrak Use: Daily driver - covers approximately 150-180 km (94-113 miles) of highway driving on a daily basis I'm crazy about maintenance. I use a maintenance dose of MMO at every fill up, when tire pressures are also checked and adjusted to 44 PSI cold. Air filter is replaced every 5,000 km (3,000 miles) due to the excessively dusty environment. Oil/filter gets changed with GP IV synthetic and ARX maintenance dose every 15,000 km at the very least (going to push M1 0W-40 to 12,500 miles with UOA next). Tires get rotated (cross or back to front depending on interval) and rebalanced every 10,000 km (6,250 miles), when the undercarriage is also lubed. OEM copper plugs are changed every 25,000 km (16,000 miles). Coolant (70/30 with distilled H2O and IAT), transfer case oil (80W-90 GL-4), differential fluid (80W-90 GL-5), brake fluid (DOT 3), power steering fluid (Mercon V) and fuel filter is changed every 40,000 km (25,000 miles). ATF (SP-III) is flushed through cooler lines at 40,000 km (25,000 miles) also, along with a new screen filter and gasket assembly. Timing belt and tensioner gets replaced with an OEM every 90,000 km (56,250 miles) alongside seals/gaskets and OEM PCV valve. OEM radiator hoses, thermostat and radiator cap are replaced at the same interval. Water pump is replaced every second timing belt change, alongside distributor rotor/cap and plug wires. The OEM brake pads generally last about 55-60,000 km (35-38,000 miles) on average, and the rotors are skimmed every second pad change. Suspension/steering receives a thorough inspection every 100,000 km (60,000 miles), although Shock absorbers I generally replace with OEMs every 200,000 km (125,000 miles). I also tend to replace tie rod ends at the same interval. 275,000 km (171,875 miles) and still counting on original drivetrain. Engine is washed on a daily basis. Truck gets washed (undercarriage included) and interior detailed once a week. Paintwork is detailed once every 3 months, regardless of mileage. Once a year, a full interior detailing is done (seats, carpet, etc. washed, headliner/plastics, etc. cleaned with glass cleaner). The Galant will be treated no different once I take delivery. I tried to avoid traffic, dirt roads, mud, etc. as much as possible.
And I haven't just owned one - I've own quite a few Mitsubishis and I've been very pleased with them. I'm not one for dissing and I'm don't mean this in the wrong way, I'm trying to be fair. But prior to my oldest Mitsubishi, I've always had GM B-bodies. The drivetrains were great, even though the transmission failed on one of my Caprices at 350,000 km (220,000 miles) of highway driving. But the build quality was terrible. The things I've had issues with; countless door handles, sunvisors, cracking dashboard, window motors, motor antenna, power locks, squeaks from everywhere, main seal leaks, AC compressor failures. All these items are factory on my Pajero, never been touched. When I compare and contrast, yes the engine is prone to bad valve guides but it isn't that difficult to solve, compared to what I've had to go through with my B-bodies...especially when the bottom end of this particular engine is indestructible. I know this is comparing apples and oranges...but what I'm trying to say is bad experiences can eventually get to you. I, for one, would never consider another GM car again. But I can understand why somebody would feel the same way about Mitsubishi, if they've been bitten badly by one. As long as Mitsubishi continues to build quality cars like they do now, which keep on improving, I will continue buying them. From your signature, I reckon it's been the same for you and Hondas.
 
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I'm glad Mitsus worked out for you. A lot of people complain about certain issues. But I gleefully drove a sludger SAAB for 3.5 years so what can I say? I guess I'm just enjoying driving "boring" Hondas too much right now. As an aside, here's a link to a post by my friend (Doug), showing the depth of his tinkering. http://www.4x4wire.com/mitsubishi/tech/speedo-gear/
 
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