Anyone see this? In Wash DC there is fueling station?
$6/Kilogram - cars can go 60-70 miles on a kilo??
Anyone know the facts?
Hydrogen autos - bit on CNN?
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Two points. Our hydrogen reserves are zero, nada, zilch! I hate seeing any tax money wasted on that boondoggle.
quote:Sad to say but I have a bad feeling.
Originally posted by labman: Two points. Our hydrogen reserves are zero, nada, zilch! I hate seeing any tax money wasted on that boondoggle.
H2 reserves?
Other than the fact that H is combined with about everything, what actually do you mean by H reserves?
What I meant by hydrogen reserves is a supply we can use without having to put more energy into it than we can get back using it. Right now, I think the cheapest process is breaking down natural gas.
Gotcha - I was thinking like a pipe in a hole gassing H2 like mori after a bean and fermented cabbage dinner. (might be a bit high in S compounds, though)
I watched a report on H2 cars on one of the Commie channels that Dish Network puts up. This dude said that he converts water to H2, the H2 fuels the car, then water drips out the tailpipe. Cycle complete. There was a solar component too, I think.
He has a shop where he converts cars to run on this technology.
I do not see where the power comes from to move the wheels. I also do not know what we would drink for water if everybody started using this technology. Gasoline?
Fascinating technology though! I wish I had a vehicle that I could refill with the garden hose.
I already drive a hydrogen powered car. When I buy gas, some of what I put in the tank is hydrogen that was added during the cracking process. Tar from the tar sands is too thick to be used as fuel, so it is treated with heat and hydrogen, reduce the size of the molecules. My car already runs partly on hydrogen.
The hydrogen could come from solar energy used to break down water. This would be a more efficient way to capture sunlight than growing crops on the land, and turning it to ethanol.
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I just attended a talk where a government engineer was talking about the future of fuels for cars.
One point he made was that hydrogen is not a fuel, per se, but a means of burning other fuels. As most of you know, hydrogen can be made from many energy sources.... solar, nuclear, coal, methane ice crystlas, and even gasoline, via the breakdown process of water into oxygen and hydrogen, as oilyriser mentioned. This will free us of dependence from any one energy source to fuel our personal transportation needs.
Crude oil is such a small part of the energy available on our earth. Once it's used up, there will be plenty other energy sources available, albeit harder to obtain and process into useable energy.
Hydrogen technology will take over and become economically attractive will only when the price of crude oil goes up and stabilizes beyond a certain point. OPEC knows this and keeps their price of crude just below this point. They aren't complete idiots.
quote:You do.
Originally posted by JAYCEE: Fascinating technology though! I wish I had a vehicle that I could refill with the garden hose.
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Hydrogen is great once you you get it into an engine or fuel cell. However, as discussed above, producing it consumes a source of energy. Yes there are free sources of energy out there, but it costs big dollars for what it take to collect it. Drill in the right spot and natural gass flows right out of the well. Unlike hydrogen, it can be compressed to where you can carry a reasonable supply while using a sane pressure.
Don't think we will ever see people driving hydrogen powered 5,000 pound trucks 50 miles each way to work. When energy is so expensive we have to use hydrogen, you will see a drastic curtailment of energy use. Much of our current life style will be gone.
Propane seems a little bit better of an option over CNG, although I would love to fill my car at my house, propane is easier to compress and you could always pull the 20 lbs. propane exchange if needed. I've seen the plans for hydrogen energy and small scale models of hydrogen production. The scale production model used a 60 watt light bulb that went to a solar panel and then went through the hydrogen reactor and then out came a tiny little motor turning a balsa fan. 60 watts ended up making about a watt. I actually took the fan and connected it to the solar panel in front of the two hydrogen representatives as they were doing their presentation and the fan spun faster and about a dozen people saw this, the hydrogen representatives asked me to leave.
Sorry folks, I just don't see it happening.
"Sorry folks, I just don't see it happening."
Don't underestimate the power of the greenie weenies. Look what they have done to the EPA. I work with a lot of young and not as young engineers and almost every one of them is brainwashed to the point that they just walk around chanting "hydrogen" regardless of any real proff of feasability. But hey if nuclear power comes back online then there will be abundant excess supply to generate hydrogen maybe, in about 30 years, until the nuclear fuel runs out 80 years later. and then we have coal, and by then maybe oil will have repleated in some reserves again..... :-)
Quote MN driver ''I actually took the fan and connected it to the solar panel in front of the two hydrogen representatives as they were doing their presentation and the fan spun faster and about a dozen people saw this, the hydrogen representatives asked me to leave.''
I have always wonder what happened to the 2 little boys that let out that the emperor had no clothes.
One word....BIODIESEL.
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Post was Off Topic, starting new thread.
Hydrogen car of today is DANGEROUS. When I was in school doing hybrid competition a few school uses H2 fuel cell. The facility won't let them park indoor for the fear of a leak/spark can cause an explosion big enough to level the building.
H2 for fuel cell makes sense, for combustion it doesn't. The biggest problem is a reliable, safe, light weight, and cheap storage tank for H2.
As per previous posts, you have to use energy to create hydrogen, at abysmal efficiency.
Then it wants to leak everywhere, and some of it can actually make it out of the atmoshpere, and back into space.
I commissioned a hydrogen generation plant, and oversaw its maintenance for a few years.
Out of interest, I did the sums of converting fossil fuels at 40% efficiency, into electricity, into hydrogen, then back into rear wheel horsepower.
A thourough waste.
Now if we could harness what the plants do, and convert sunlight, water, and CO2 into energy...different kettle of fish.
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