JHZR2
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Hybrid Sales Soar
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could the sales increase possibly come from $2.75+ per gallon gasoline.
I wonder how much it will cost to replace the batterys when they wear out? I bet it will cut into the any fuel saveings a bit. I don't think hybrids are all they are cracked up to be.
Not only the cost of battery replacement, but NO ONE is discussing the HAZWASTE implications of massive battery disposal. I am sure these are the sealed, RG-type batteries that are very hard to recycle.
Just like the so-called "hydrogen economy", the devil is in the details and either people aren't educated sufficiently to discuss them (in this 30-second sound-bite / Paris Hilton culture), or has a hidden agenda to remove these issues from discussion entirely...
quote:Quit being so logical! You are absolutely correct, BTW...
Originally posted by USAFREOD: Not only the cost of battery replacement, but NO ONE is discussing the HAZWASTE implications of massive battery disposal. I am sure these are the sealed, RG-type batteries that are very hard to recycle. Just like the so-called "hydrogen economy", the devil is in the details and either people aren't educated sufficiently to discuss them (in this 30-second sound-bite / Paris Hilton culture), or has a hidden agenda to remove these issues from discussion entirely...
quote:To the best of my knowledge, most hybrids use ultracapacitors (very large capacitors) to store their energy during regenerative braking instead of a bank of batteries. Capacitors contain dry components and are very recyclable. They also last MUCH longer than battery technologies and can be full-cycle charged and drained many thousands of times. A single ultracapacitor is cheaper than a set of batteries used in the electric cars. After nanotechnologies have been perfected we will see ultracapacitors that have at least a thousand times the capacity. This is because the closer you move the plates in a capacitor, the more capacitance you achieve. When this happens electric cars will be incredibly inexpensive to produce and will be the dominant car type. [ April 26, 2005, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: mjo ]
Originally posted by pajim17057: I wonder how much it will cost to replace the batterys when they wear out? I bet it will cut into the any fuel saveings a bit. I don't think hybrids are all they are cracked up to be.
Honda and Toyota Hybrids use NiMH batteries for the storage of power. While these do last quite some time, they could be expensive to replace.
For my situation, assuming maintenance costs will be the same over the life of the vehicle (yes, this may be a terrible assumption), gas would have to be $1.65 a litre to break even after ten years of ownership of a Prius compared to driving a fully-loaded Corolla. At $0.85 right now, I don't see it. But if fuel costs double it might be worth it.
I'm in Saskatchewan though, so I don't know how useful the hybrid aspect would be in the winter.
I think most people buying them now are buying them as a fashion statement more than anything.
quote:. Thank goodness I'm not alone. I got into a lively "discussion" on another board about this topic and was basically shouted down by a chorus of "who cares, I won't own the vehicle when it comes time to replace the batteries -- why should I have to deal with the cost/implications?" Doesn't seem like a very environmentally friendly attitude, but I have been told that I tend to miss the big picture....
Originally posted by USAFREOD: Not only the cost of battery replacement, but NO ONE is discussing the HAZWASTE implications of massive battery disposal. I am sure these are the sealed, RG-type batteries that are very hard to recycle. Just like the so-called "hydrogen economy", the devil is in the details and either people aren't educated sufficiently to discuss them (in this 30-second sound-bite / Paris Hilton culture), or has a hidden agenda to remove these issues from discussion entirely...
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have been told by a dealer that the battery pack on the Toyota is around $3000 and they are suppost to last at least 150thou+miles/years???? guess if you see one in a used car lot, you may want to avoid it being the batterys probaly need replacing. Have also heard and read a few tests so far that the new Toyota has NOT been getting the EPA it is claimed to get as the old model did do. EPA 60city/51hiway-heard overall they are averaging around 42/44-still nothing to complain about at $2.50per gal++ . If this is true the Toyota and the Honda Civic are getting about the same which is about the same as I get with the 98 Suzuki Swift which may not be as big or comfortable but is paid for and was well under half the price new and being they are not being made anymore, used they are cheap if one can be found-I got a second one also- 01, saving it for when the 98 gets retired. Plan on trying to go the next 8 to 9 years without anymore car payments/average 35thou miles a year-43/45mpg is great!!!!!!!
like others mentioned with the cost of the battery packs, I would avoid these hybrid models. I believe the most bang for the buck fuel economy and price are still the honda civic and toyota corolla. 40mpg isn't bad. I found the 50 mpg plus volks diesels are close to the 19k range here but a corolla and civic in the 13k range is more economical.
[ April 27, 2005, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: Cutehumor ]
Corolla or an Echo for around $10,000 which will get you over 40mpg+++ like my Swift's. You will have to hurry for one being I have heard this is the last year for them being they never have sold well here in the states. Wish they had the Canadian version here in the states, I think it looks better without a trunk. They got a short tail like my Swift along with it being a hatchback. I would think they would be selling better now that the price of gas is at $2.50+per gal.
Hybrids are another over-hyped waste of money. The gas savings will never eclipse the additional initial cost and subsequent battery and related component repair and replacements costs compared to a standard 4 cylinder econobox. The Greenies are such suckers for ideas that sound nice in theory but fall far short in actuality. The hydrogen fuel cell is another idea that is likely unfeasible (at least in our lifetimes) but of course the Greenies are touting it enthusiastically. (Idealism vs. Realism)
Facts? We don't need no stinking facts! ![[stretch]](/forums/graemlins/gr_stretch.gif)
Hybrids are a way to get a new car without appearing to be "materialistic" since you're doing it to "preserve the environment".
No wonder the sales are soaring, there's been a real need for that. All of the pleasure, none of the guilt!
quote:I agree completely, and my brother resembles that remark totally.
Originally posted by MADMIKE: Hybrids are another over-hyped waste of money. The gas savings will never eclipse the additional initial cost and subsequent battery and related component repair and replacements costs compared to a standard 4 cylinder econobox. The Greenies are such suckers for ideas that sound nice in theory but fall far short in actuality. The hydrogen fuel cell is another idea that is likely unfeasible (at least in our lifetimes) but of course the Greenies are touting it enthusiastically. (Idealism vs. Realism)
realize that new technologies need some time to mature. The internal compustion gasolne engine has been around for over 100 years and has time to mature into what we know it as today. The earlier adopters are willing to forego the mature technologies for something that appeals to them on an emotional basis.
Some people actually buy things NOT on a pure ecoonomical basis!! Wow, hoodathunk?
I'm sure that 100 years ago there were postings on the saloon wall about sticking with the "proven" ox cart.....
never say never.
I have no problem with the existence of Priuses, Insights, and, on another tangent, the Mini. It is nice to sell a gas-sipper as a fashionable status symbol. Too often little 4-bangers are considered welfare-mobiles in this country for people who can't afford better. The Big 3 are still (after 25 years!) mostly engineering theirs as disposable CAFE improvers for fleet buyers. Or they're importing and rebadging. What I consider an exception to this rule, the Saturn S series, let the engineers concentrate on one dang car that happened to be small in size. Since that was the only thing on their resumes, they concentrated and got it mostly right.
On a trip through Washington, DC-- a total traffic/parking nightmare-- it was cool to see the quantity of Minis tooling around.
quote:The Mini, with the automatic, gets 32MPG highway. Any automatic 4-cylinder Honda Accord or Toyota Camry (most are sold with 4-cylinder engines, by the way) should give the same fuel economy. They won't require premium gas (unlike the Mini), and I don't beleive they're considered to be "welfare mobiles" either. EDIT: Washington, DC, by the way, is a "total traffic/parking nightmare" partly by design and partly by neglect. [ April 28, 2005, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: brianl703 ]
Originally posted by eljefino: the Mini
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