HT/HS of VW503.01?

[moribundman]

Can someone please point me to a place where I can find the data on VW503.01? I'm especially interested in the HT/HS of VW503.01.

 

[pscholte]

M'man, I researched this one to death...and could not find the specific data...the best I can figure is that the VW 503.01 spec levies the same HT/HS requirements as ACEA Oil Sequence A3-02, that being >3.5.

 

[moribundman]

M1 0W-40 meets VW503.01 with an HT/HS of 3.6, but also meets VW502.00, which requires an HT/HS of 3.6 or higher. VW503.01 doesn't seem to be low HT/HS like VW503.00, which has an HT/HS of 2.4-2.9.

 

[pscholte]

From the info I could gather, and piece together, I believe you are correct.

 

[moribundman]

Unfortunatly, I still can't find any figures regarding the HT/HS of VW503.01. What I'm really trying to figure out is if an oil that meets VW503.01 can always be used instead of an oil that meets VW500.00 or VW502.00 as long as a regular drain interval is maintained.

 

[geo]

quote:

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Originally posted by moribundman: M1 0W-40 meets VW503.01 with an HT/HS of 3.6, but also meets VW502.00, which requires an HT/HS of 3.6 or higher. VW503.01 doesn't seem to be low HT/HS like VW503.00, which has an HT/HS of 2.4-2.9.

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503.00 HTHS is no lower 2,9 and not above 3,4.

 

[moribundman]

geo, you're right. VW503.00 has an HT/HS of 2.9-3.4. Not sure why I mixed my numbers up... That still leaves the original question regarding the HT/HS of VW 503.01.

 

[geo]

quote:

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Originally posted by moribundman: Unfortunatly, I still can't find any figures regarding the HT/HS of VW503.01. What I'm really trying to figure out is if an oil that meets VW503.01 can always be used instead of an oil that meets VW500.00 or VW502.00 as long as a regular drain interval is maintained.

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Unless 502 or 500 is specially mentioned with 503.01, I would not (even though HTHS is the same). 503.xx calls for additional (and/or different) elastomers, time, and elongation specs for its PV 3344 oil seal tests. The 500 and 502 specs use identical PV 3344 test conditions (which are different that 503.xx) That said, all oils that I've seen that are 503.01 are also 502.00 (M1, SLX). So oils can be formulated to meet or exceed both specs.

 

[moribundman]

geo, HT/HS for VW503.01 is 3.6 or higher like for VW502.00? Looks like you have seen the spec sheet for VW503.01. Can you tell me where to find it online? Someone posted a link to all the other VW spec sheets recently, but unfortunately, VW503.01 wasn't included.

 

[geo]

quote:

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Originally posted by moribundman: geo, HT/HS for VW503.01 is 3.6 or higher like for VW502.00? Looks like you have seen the spec sheet for VW503.01. Can you tell me where to find it online? Someone posted a link to all the other VW spec sheets recently, but unfortunately, VW503.01 wasn't included.

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According to a Russian website I found 6 months ago, 503.01 spec is identical to 503.00 except for its HTHS, which is as 502.00. Sorry, I don't have a website. Have you tried Audi or VW? 3Sq

 

[moribundman]

geo, No, I haven't asked VW or Audi. Anyway, I guess this is what it comes down to regarding HT/HS for VW/Audi gas engines: VW spec - HT/HS 500.00 - 3.5 min 502.00 - 3.6 min 503.01 - 3.6 min 503.00 - 2.9-3.4 VW500/502 is for regular drain, VW503 is for extended drain. I wonder if the different demands on seal compatibility have to do with the extended drain. PS: Thanks for identifying yourself there, 3sq.

 

[geo]

quote:

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Originally posted by moribundman: geo, No, I haven't asked VW or Audi. Anyway, I guess this is what it comes down to regarding HT/HS for VW/Audi gas engines: VW spec - HT/HS 500.00 - 3.5 min 502.00 - 3.6 min 503.01 - 3.6 min 503.00 - 2.9-3.4 VW500/502 is for regular drain, VW503 is for extended drain. I wonder if the different demands on seal compatibility have to do with the extended drain. PS: Thanks for identifying yourself there, 3sq.

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I've got "3.5 min" for 500.00, 501.01, 502, 503.01, 505.00, and 505.01, and 2.9-3.4 for 503.00 and 506.00. Audi may have changed seal materials after May 1999 (MY 2000) to comply with the new oils for extended drains. Some forum members here may not know that Audi/VW redesigned engine mechanicals to work with these low HTHS/low visc oils, and achieved 2 yr, 30,000 km extended drains. Engine longevity is identical to pre-503.xx engines. [ July 21, 2003, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: geo ]

 

[moribundman]

The spec sheet that I saw said HT/HS 3.6 min for VW 502.00. Not sure if this info is dated or not...

quote:

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Some forum members here may not know that Audi/VW redesigned engine mechanicals to work with these low HTHS/low visc oils, and achieved 2 yr, 30,000 km extended drains. Engine longevity is identical to pre-503.xx engines.

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Yeah, I know that at least some of the Audi motors have now differently designed cams, etc, but I'm not sure about the US versions. Another thing is that I keep hearing (hearsay- heard it on a German forum) a lot of the new S4 biturbo and TT turbo motors blow up (in Europe), so I'm not sure what to make of it. The cars that are equipped for the extended drain also have the flexible service interval. Do they have this in the US now, too?

 

[Yuk]

Geo, Does this seal change mean my 1999 (built in 1998) 1.8T would be unable to use extended drains? Does this also mean an earlier spec oil ( pre 503.01) would be a better choice in my engine?

 

[moribundman]

I'm sure geo will know more about that than me, but this is the info I have redarding VW/Audi and "Longlife Service"/extended drain: Longlife Service was introduced in Germany in May '99. Vehicles, which are equipped for Longlife Service show the code 'QG1' in the manual. Vehicles with QG0 or QG2 cannot be switched to Longlife Service.

 

[geo]

quote:

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Originally posted by moribundman: Yeah, I know that at least some of the Audi motors have now differently designed cams, etc, but I'm not sure about the US versions.

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I've heard that EU and US engines are identical, from a few sources.

quote:

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Another thing is that I keep hearing (hearsay- heard it on a German forum) a lot of the new S4 biturbo and TT turbo motors blow up (in Europe), so I'm not sure what to make of it.

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Maybe some S4 2.7T and TT owners are using 503.00 oil (SLX) instead of 503.01 oil (SLX II)? But, I think the S4 2.7T uses 503.00, and the RS4 uses 503.01. ?

quote:

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The cars that are equipped for the extended drain also have the flexible service interval. Do they have this in the US now, too?

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I believe they still have fixed scheduled service.

 

[moribundman]

I would also think that the Euro and US engines are identical, but I do wonder how the average customer in the US will know what oil to use? I don't think they know about low or high HT/HS, etc. Probably they go only by viscosity? That could be problematic.

quote:

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Maybe some S4 2.7T and TT owners are using 503.00 oil (SLX) instead of 503.01 oil (SLX II)? But, I think the S4 2.7T uses 503.00, and the RS4 uses 503.01. ?

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Somehow I doubt that. Most people get their cars serviced at the dealer there, and at least the dealer should know what oil to use. I mean, the oil bottles have the various approved ratings/specs printed right on them. Then again, who knows...

 

[geo]

quote:

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Originally posted by Yuk: Geo, Does this seal change mean my 1999 (built in 1998) 1.8T would be unable to use extended drains? Does this also mean an earlier spec oil ( pre 503.01) would be a better choice in my engine?

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Yuk, According to Audi, only MY 2000 1.8T (May 1999) engines can use WIV extended drain schedule (2 yr/30,000 km). I don't know if seal and mechanical changes were made to the 1.8T before May 1999. Also, WIV extended drains are specified for EU, not for the US, although engines are identical. This may be because of 503 availability, or for liability concerns, etc. WIV extended drain schedule is different than the extended drain that people on this forum discuss. Use the VW oil spec that your US manual recommends for EU use. My '96 A4 manual specs 500/501 for EU usage. I'm guessing that any 502.00 is fine. 503.01 oils will not destroy your seals, since 503 testing includes 502 elastomers.

 

[geo]

quote:

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Originally posted by moribundman: Somehow I doubt that. Most people get their cars serviced at the dealer there, and at least the dealer should know what oil to use.

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I wish I could say that about US Audi dealers. They still love to push dino bulk oil. [ July 22, 2003, 03:57 AM: Message edited by: geo ]

 

[moribundman]

Guess what the dealer was going to use in my A4 during the free service/warranty period? Cheap 20W-50 dino. I brought them my own oil. I hope they really used it...