HPL on track at SCCA Track Night in America

TiGeo

TiGeo

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Good times in the #38 Shaggin' Wagon p/b HPL Euro 5W40 last night at Dominion Raceway in Spotsylvania, VA. 3 20 min sessions in a casual atmosphere for $175 was a winner for me. This oil has a few K on it and I just do 5K OCIs including a few track days included as a reasonable way to manage it. Max oil temps I saw (readout gauge I have enabled on infotainment) were 265 F. Bo-bo Accelera 200tw tires (Indonesia) continue to impress for fun lapping rubber. Wearing like iron with great audible feedback. 7 track days on them plus a few K street miles (LOUD!) and I'm only half worn 😮. 255/40/17s are ~$450 delivered.





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Very nice. I will probably try Dominion the next time I do an Xtreme xperience drive. I had been going to Pittsburgh.
 
ZeeOSix said:
Just think how much "cooler" the oil would run if it was 0W-20 ... 😄 😜

What's the max oil temp you've seen on any track?
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You can't control yourself can you? AHAHAHAHA

0W20 would run a touch cooler I believe. There were 2 MK7 GTIs there....I should have ask them if they were running 508/0W20 and what oil temps they were seeing.

I saw 265 F as a high. Temps around 80 F. Highest I've ever seen was 272 F at a different track (VIR) with warmer temps in the mid-80s F. These MK7 VWs suffer from heat with the DSG and oil coolers both in the coolant circuit. Divorcing them helps as does hood venting based on flow/pressure testing to optmize location to get more air through the stack (condensor, intercooler, radiator) and out. Unless you have coolant temp issues, it's fine...just send it. These engines are more sensitive to IAT (intake air temps) than anyhting w/r to pulling out timing advance and cutting power and I have an aftermarket intercooler which helps out quite a bit. You can also just back it off for a lap...going hard/full/10 10ths for multiple laps in a row can be problematic. A common misconception is that oil temps = power drop but they don't - lots of data logging supports it's just IAT-based and of course the ECU will do things when the coolant temps climb and cause the car to overheat.
 
TiGeo said:
You can't control yourself can you? AHAHAHAHA
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Couldn't resist. 😄

TiGeo said:
0W20 would run a touch cooler I believe. There were 2 MK7 GTIs there....I should have ask them if they were running 508/0W20 and what oil temps they were seeing.
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Would have to run different viscosity in the same car on the same track with the same ambient temps to know for sure. As discused before, even though thinner oil might run a bit cooler, it's still not giving better engine protection.
 
ZeeOSix said:
You should go down a grade of two and pickup a couple more HP since the protection and added wear won't be measurable.
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I'm on the track in a car with 2x stock power not a stock Camry.
 
At 265°F, that oil is nice and happy. A walk in the park. IIRC, that add pack hits peak CoF at ~300°F. I don't know that I would try to cool it off. Let it eat.

I ran Amsoil Dominator 5W-20 in my FSWerks turbo Focus back 10+ years ago at Shenandoah. It did just fine, but the HTHS of that oil is also 3.2 cP. HPL No VII Euro 5W-20 is 3.26 cP and likely what I would be running if it was mine, not thinking twice about it. That's just me though. Thick vs thin bias aside, there's enough film thickness there that it would be just fine. Not trying to sway the OP, just playing Devil's advocate to the discussion.
 
RDY4WAR said:
At 265°F, that oil is nice and happy. A walk in the park. IIRC, that add pack hits peak CoF at ~300°F. I don't know that I would try to cool it off. Let it eat.

I ran Amsoil Dominator 5W-20 in my FSWerks turbo Focus back 10+ years ago at Shenandoah. It did just fine, but the HTHS of that oil is also 3.2 cP. HPL No VII Euro 5W-20 is 3.26 cP and likely what I would be running if it was mine, not thinking twice about it. That's just me though. Thick vs thin bias aside, there's enough film thickness there that it would be just fine. Not trying to sway the OP, just playing Devil's advocate to the discussion.
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The oil temp is fine as you say...no issue. The issue arises when that oil temp continues to climb and combined with the DSG fluid overwhelms the cooling system. It's why many divorce these systems or add auxiliary cooling etc. The oil temp on its own is no issue.

Are you saying you'd run the No-VII 5W20 in my VW over the Euro 5W40 with a HTHS of 4?
 
TiGeo said:
The oil temp is fine as you say...no issue. The issue arises when that oil temp continues to climb and combined with the DSG fluid overwhelms the cooling system. It's why many divorce these systems or add auxiliary cooling etc. The oil temp on its own is no issue.

Are you saying you'd run the No-VII 5W20 in my VW over the Euro 5W40 with a HTHS of 4?
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Okay, I'm tracking now.

I would, but I'm also a glutton for punishment. I get a thrill from running things on the edge. It's why I have 0W-12 in a 30 year old drag engine. Even at 2x stock power, I wouldn't be turned away by a 3.26 cP HTHS with 260-275°F oil temp. If it was hitting 280+, eh.... then I would probably be thinking about it more. Then I would probably run the No VII Euro 5W-30 (3.5+ cP). The 5W-40 is a solid, safe choice, and I'm not bashing that choice at all. I'm not recommending to YOU to run the No VII Euro 5W-20, just making that clear. Just saying if it was mine, a partial teardown and inspect showed consistent clearance between bearings within tolerance, no out-of-round concerns, IMEP/BMEP relative to that clearance and journal diameter check out, (because I over-analyze everything) a stout 5W-20 like that one would likely provide sufficient minimum oil film thickness. There's engines running more power than you at higher rpm with lower MOFT and bearings are like new after several events, but they're also running less load on dirt track and have billet cranks and rods.
 
RDY4WAR said:
Okay, I'm tracking now.

I would, but I'm also a glutton for punishment. I get a thrill from running things on the edge. It's why I have 0W-12 in a 30 year old drag engine. Even at 2x stock power, I wouldn't be turned away by a 3.26 cP HTHS with 260-275°F oil temp. If it was hitting 280+, eh.... then I would probably be thinking about it more. Then I would probably run the No VII Euro 5W-30 (3.5+ cP). The 5W-40 is a solid, safe choice, and I'm not bashing that choice at all. I'm not recommending to YOU to run the No VII Euro 5W-20, just making that clear. Just saying if it was mine, a partial teardown and inspect showed consistent clearance between bearings within tolerance, no out-of-round concerns, IMEP/BMEP relative to that clearance and journal diameter check out, (because I over-analyze everything) a stout 5W-20 like that one would likely provide sufficient minimum oil film thickness. There's engines running more power than you at higher rpm with lower MOFT and bearings are like new after several events, but they're also running less load on dirt track and have billet cranks and rods.
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I talked to Dave w/HPL about whether the No VII 5W30 was worth running and he recommended sticking with the standard Euro 5W40. I'd have no issue with the 5W30 Euro No-VII but not sure what I gain?
 
RDY4WAR said:
Little to nothing.
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Exactly. I will say I wanted to try it for fun but there is no real case for it...I still have a full change in the garage so won't need to buy more until late this year...maybe I could split it Euro 5W40 and No-VII Euro 5W30 ;) . No reason to run a 20 in this car but my son's Focus has lived on 5W20 for 10 years/125K and he is going to start doing some track stuff so his car may be the better candidate for the no-VII 5W20 for track use. Queue thickie heads exploding.
 
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